Long term E85 use

[GsxrMe]

I have had zero problems. I refuse to put 93 back in my tank as I can feel the power missing. Flex Fuel has also done a great job keeping my exhaust tips clean.

Im getting 18MPG around town on Flex and 27MPG on 93.

[SCQTT]

On page 368 of the 2017 Toyota 86 manual it specifically says DO NOT use E85.

Of course we do not always follow the manual, but officially this is Toyota's opinion on E85. In fact, it talks about using 91 octane if need be, but is specifically states DO NOT use gasoline with more than 10% alcohol content.

[Yardjass]

Originally Posted by SCQTT

If any of you guys were motorcycle riders you would see how E85 and even E10 is destroying fuel systems. It is why almost everyone that is serious about making HP (and does not want alcohol because they are squishing it) uses ethanol free gasoline.
Ethanol is evil and is only here to suggest an alternative fuel, because that is cool.

The person that suggested fuel is better today than in the 80's? Perhaps it is in Australia, but not in America. I'm not even certain what the refiners are putting out now. If you drive behind a car without a CAT for 30 seconds it smells like you are standing in a chemical plant. It was not like that before, even before CATs when we had leaded fuel.

Where I live there is zero hope of finding alcohol free unless you are at a marina.

I suppose the real tell on alcohol is if it is allowed in piston powered aircraft. Anyone know the answer to that?

Yep. Turns out when using harmful fuel can result in your plane going down or being stuck in the middle of the water and hoping you can contact the coast guard or marine tow instead of just a larger repair bill or the inconvenience of being stranded on the side of a highway, people seem to like ethanol fuels a lot less.

Originally Posted by Rougenite

Using Planes as a basis for E85 being bad for engines is kind of....wrong. No matter how similar they are, they are not the same.

As an example E85 tends to have issues with water. Planes need fuel that are less likely to ice.

Its the same for boats. Large amounts of water around, it just doesn't make logical sense to put E85 in.

The problems you described are non-issues, and could be remedied in other ways even if they weren't. You've completely missed the point, and the reason why ethanol fuels are not used in those applications. Ignoring the safety issues of using the stuff in an engine designed for regular gas, what benefit does a fuel that gives you more power but less range give you in the average boat or small airplane? Why spend the extra money to make a boat or a plane that can safely run it, and what average consumer is going to go out looking to buy such a vehicle? Once it is done, what do you do about all of the old vehicles? Are there going to be 2 different pumps at the airports/marinas? What happens when someone inevitably uses the wrong fuel?

Originally Posted by SCQTT

On page 368 of the 2017 Toyota 86 manual it specifically says DO NOT use E85.

Of course we do not always follow the manual, but officially this is Toyota's opinion on E85. In fact, it talks about using 91 octane if need be, but is specifically states DO NOT use gasoline with more than 10% alcohol content.

They may just mean don't put E85 in the tank and start the car up without doing anything else. I think we would all be very interested in knowing Subaru/Toyota's actual opinion on tuned E85 vehicles, and in seeing vendor literature on the engine and fuel system components. Too bad "don't use it" is the safe answer, and probably all we are ever going to get.

[SCQTT]

I guess I do not know enough about it, but I thought most people were doing the alcohol tunes for engines that were super or turbo charged.

Higher octane means more controlled burn, less explosive, less prone to exploding before TDC or pre-ignition while still on compression stroke.

I was under the impression supercharged or turbo cars were using E85 because they have low compression. Around here I have never seen high octane E85 and it the little E85 I see is typically used in soccer mom type vehicles.

I'd really be interested in hearing more about these E85 "tunes" and what is exactly accomplished by them. Not necessarily the HP figures (but that would be interesting) but rather how things are changed to make alcohol advantageous when compared to gasoline.

[Detroiter]

Originally Posted by SCQTT

I guess I do not know enough about it, but I thought most people were doing the alcohol tunes for engines that were super or turbo charged.

Higher octane means more controlled burn, less explosive, less prone to exploding before TDC or pre-ignition while still on compression stroke.

I was under the impression supercharged or turbo cars were using E85 because they have low compression. Around here I have never seen high octane E85 and it the little E85 I see is typically used in soccer mom type vehicles.

I'd really be interested in hearing more about these E85 "tunes" and what is exactly accomplished by them. Not necessarily the HP figures (but that would be interesting) but rather how things are changed to make alcohol advantageous when compared to gasoline.

I'm new to this forum and my FR-S but prior to this car I drove a B6 A4 that was tuned on E85. Before doing so I did all my research to see if it would be safe and advantageous to do so. From what I found there are 2 main benefits from running E85, Higher octane and cooling effect. Both of these result in less of a chance for detonation. There is nothing fundamentally different about making power on a boosted car vs a NA one when you think about it like this. The turbo or supercharger in a way artificially raising the compression of the engine. Rather than the piston pushing the air and fuel mixture together alone it uses the aid of the boost to pre compress the air allowing more fuel to be pumped in and bigger "bang". Basically E85 will allow either setup to be pushed to the point where it either makes knock, or the physical limits of the engine/turbo,supercharger setup allows. From what I know most stock NA cars don't benefit much from E85 as they are hitting the physical limits around the threshold of 93 oct where as ours are not allowing the tuner to squeeze more power out of the engine with the aid of knock resistance.

Also all of this could be wrong I'm no professional just a hobbyist that likes to learn

[Drakiv]

Originally Posted by SCQTT

I guess I do not know enough about it, but I thought most people were doing the alcohol tunes for engines that were super or turbo charged.

Higher octane means more controlled burn, less explosive, less prone to exploding before TDC or pre-ignition while still on compression stroke.

I was under the impression supercharged or turbo cars were using E85 because they have low compression. Around here I have never seen high octane E85 and it the little E85 I see is typically used in soccer mom type vehicles.

I'd really be interested in hearing more about these E85 "tunes" and what is exactly accomplished by them. Not necessarily the HP figures (but that would be interesting) but rather how things are changed to make alcohol advantageous when compared to gasoline.

The reason people use E-85 or high ethanol content fuel is because it runs cool like a race gas without the race gas cost. That's the reason you see a lot of turbocharged or supercharged vehicles using E85, it allows them to tune it like a race gas and achieve those higher HP numbers. New vehicles all have their fuel systems built to handle ethanol based fuels due to most fuel sold in the states being at least 10%.


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuOs1yap8mU"]E85 Ethanol Does not harm Non-FlexFueled Engines - YouTube[/ame]

[SCQTT]

Holly shit, that video might be 17 years old....it is certainly 10 years old. I'm not convinced. I know what it does to fuel systems if it is not used right away. I'm also not convinced it runs cooler, I just do not think that is possible. Race gas is not a cooler burn, it is a more controlled, slower burn.

10% ethanol is horrible I cannot imagine what 85% is like. Good luck with the E85 tune everyone. I'll be wishing I could find zero ethanol.

[Drakiv]

Originally Posted by SCQTT

Holly shit, that video might be 17 years old....it is certainly 10 years old. I'm not convinced. I know what it does to fuel systems if it is not used right away. I'm also not convinced it runs cooler, I just do not think that is possible. Race gas is not a cooler burn, it is a more controlled, slower burn.

10% ethanol is horrible I cannot imagine what 85% is like. Good luck with the E85 tune everyone. I'll be wishing I could find zero ethanol.

you are hilarious....you aren't convinced....I didn't know you were on the front lines of fuel development. I guess science doesn't account for anything. I chose an old video on purpose to show that they have been testing this stuff for a while now. And to this day I still have not seen any form of failure due to E85 use on a proper tune on any vehicle.

[Lantana frs]

The world is flat and dinosaur bones were buried by satan.

[SCQTT]

Lol, soon you'll be telling me we should be using it to help ward off global warming.

Lol Lantana, is that some kind of insult? I'm not certain if you are suggesting I am old, a luddite, less than open minded or suggesting people that are religious are those things. I find you amusing.

Drakiv Are you are the front lines of fuel development? Does a decade old video produced by the E85 lobby and using a spark plug "color check" count in your world as science?

I'd love to see a back to back dyno run of a car ran on E85 & gasoline. I know the turbo guys are using it and get why they are, but I do not see the benefit (other than it sounds cool) of running it in a NA car.

The limited research I have done suggests it has about 20% less energy per gallon so I am going to guess the NA guys that have a E85 tune have figured out another way to shove a bunch more of this liquid down your cars throat beyond programing. I'm not that familiar with this fuel system, can the injectors and supply lines keep up with a 20% increase in volume?

[Lantana frs]

The higher octane allows a more aggressive tune. Other than that, tuners tell me it lowers combustion temps but what do they know. Yes you're right, my fuel system cant handle it.

[Lantana frs]

Makes a stocker feel like its chained to the proverbial tree.

[Drakiv]

Originally Posted by SCQTT

Lol, soon you'll be telling me we should be using it to help ward off global warming.

Lol Lantana, is that some kind of insult? I'm not certain if you are suggesting I am old, a luddite, less than open minded or suggesting people that are religious are those things. I find you amusing.

Drakiv Are you are the front lines of fuel development? Does a decade old video produced by the E85 lobby and using a spark plug "color check" count in your world as science?

I'd love to see a back to back dyno run of a car ran on E85 & gasoline. I know the turbo guys are using it and get why they are, but I do not see the benefit (other than it sounds cool) of running it in a NA car.

The limited research I have done suggests it has about 20% less energy per gallon so I am going to guess the NA guys that have a E85 tune have figured out another way to shove a bunch more of this liquid down your cars throat beyond programing. I'm not that familiar with this fuel system, can the injectors and supply lines keep up with a 20% increase in volume?

Calm down kid, go drink more Kool-Aid. I don't believe in global warming, but it doesn't matter what I say on here because you wont believe anything anyone says unless it follows your opinion it seems. Do your own research, I am telling you facts not opinions. E85 burns cooler than regular gas, as does 100+ octane race gas. E85 has equivalent octane rating of 105-113 depending on mix. Christ almighty, you are ridiculous. And its actually 30%, not 20%. And yes your stock system can handle a 30% increase with a proper tune, I mean its not like thousands have been doing it for years now. The problems starts to arise when you start increase the demand, such as introducing forced induction to the system. Then yeah you better upgrade your injectors, pump, and rails. Possibly even all your fuel lines if you are going high enough.

[504]

http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/e85...years-e85.html

A great post.