horsepower goal

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

the great thing about distributorless ignition is that its spark is more accurate and precise because its directly controlled via ECU. It removes so many issues that distributors/wires/and IDI coil packs suffer from.

Wait, aren't all cars distributorless ignition these days?

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by Asterisked Accolade

I'm just looking to have a P2WR of 10.0 or less. So mine would be 250-300hp and I would lighten the car up to 2,550-2600lbs. Even less if possible (preferably 2,500lbs even).

pretty ambitious to target 10 or less...

My experience..its pretty easy to throw around numbers, but when you start to get to the nitty gritty and start modding...things start to get hazy. Then you start fighting with yourself about feeling and compromise rather than doing whats necessary for a p:w ratio of 10. By then you've turned your beloved car into a monster, and as much as we love a beast of a machine..you cant really fall inlove with it anymore.

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Wait, aren't all cars distributorless ignition these days?

im pretty sure they are... at least in areas that are not 3rd world countries

[Asterisked Accolade]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

pretty ambitious to target 10 or less...

My experience..its pretty easy to throw around numbers, but when you start to get to the nitty gritty and start modding...things start to get hazy. Then you start fighting with yourself about feeling and compromise rather than doing whats necessary for a p:w ratio of 10. By then you've turned your beloved car into a monster, and as much as we love a beast of a machine..you cant really fall inlove with it anymore.

250hp @ 2,600lbs is 10.4. That doesn't seem crazy ambitious to me. My preferred goal would be 275hp @ 2,550lbs for 9.3.

My Celica is being modded to be close to that-- hopefully 240hp @ 2,350lbs for 9.8. I don't feel like i wont love it anymore-- it's my first car and i'm making it into a car i can take to HPDS, not some kind of Frankenstein Nurburgring Beast.

[mechaghost]

I'm hoping somewhere around 200-230 whp with a super charger + i/h/e + tuen to keep things linear.

[Tainen]

Originally Posted by Dkittrell

FYI you will need a tune if you replace your header

false. Ran a catted nameless header for a week, and a track day. zero CELs. 6 hours of datalogging all came back positive.

The car will take a header without a tune no problem.

the catless header has done 60 miles so far without a CEL as well. I'm planning on road testing that for a while and seeing if any CELs pop up over time.

oh and. my goals are 200~ whp. I think that would be perfect for this car without disturbing the balance too much. Plus... I'm pretty close to those goals already.
(I already did the high horsepower thing with my WRX. it's really not that much fun after a few years, once you realize it makes the car really boring on the streets)

[Mr 286]

My goal is +0 HP. I just want to keep the car as clean and stock as possible for as long as I have it. For aesthetics, I might add some of the dealer approved intake/exhaust parts if they provide a more rich engine sound (nothing too loud or obnoxious). I can't help feeling that I'd just ruin this car if I equip it with a turbocharger, mess with the tune, or build the motor etc

Maybe I'll wait to see what higher performance versions they produce over the years. I honestly wish I had two of these cars. This one to keep stock, and the other to make a project out of. I guess that's what my MR2 is for, heh.

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by Asterisked Accolade

250hp @ 2,600lbs is 10.4. That doesn't seem crazy ambitious to me. My preferred goal would be 275hp @ 2,550lbs for 9.3.

well lets take your goal... to me...we can search for that extra 50hp..and think thats pretty easy 250hp is doable..

but in reality, im looking at finding 90whp to get to the 250hp goal. getting almost 100hp (90whp) additional out of a 2.0 4cylinder in the past has been pretty ambitious..and even required some engine builders to compromise streetability for performance.

then we have the chassis. Now this car is not exactly heavy. Sure we think 2800lbs is nothing new and its considered light for most modern production cars, my rx7 was 2700lbs and I felt it wasn't as nimble as the FRS around corners. If you take 200-300lbs off the Zx6 chassis, we really start to sacrifice that level of comfort we associate with a well balanced factory sports car. Taking off rear seats + factory seats, sound deadening, removing metal from the chassis, lighter wheels, etc,, by the time we reach 200-300lbs..you might as well strip the car down bare because its no longer that comfortable for street application...

At this point you look at all the stuff you have done...you have a monster...all that work and effort. only to catch up to a modded 350z in performance (in terms of numbers)...while the 350z might even still be more comfortable to drive.

[Dkittrell]

Originally Posted by Tainen

false. Ran a catted nameless header for a week, and a track day. zero CELs. 6 hours of datalogging all came back positive.

The car will take a header without a tune no problem.

the catless header has done 60 miles so far without a CEL as well. I'm planning on road testing that for a while and seeing if any CELs pop up over time.

oh and. my goals are 200~ whp. I think that would be perfect for this car without disturbing the balance too much. Plus... I'm pretty close to those goals already.
(I already did the high horsepower thing with my WRX. it's really not that much fun after a few years, once you realize it makes the car really boring on the streets)

Ok let me rephrase that . If you change the header you run the risk of running lean and blowing your motor unless a tune is put on the car to match the system

[Liquidsnake]

200whp

[uspspro]

Looking to get around 200whp with I/H/E/tune.

Then I will see if adding a Rotrex SC is in the cards at a later point in time.

If it will result in >250whp I will probably go for it.

[Kwaziekeller]

Well I'm coming from a 500whp Charger SRT8 (497 sae and 4200+lbs, around 8.4lbs:hp) so simple numbers wise, I'm after about 300whp in my FR-S to be in the same ballpark.. I'm aware that's not as easy as it sounds... but the gearing in the FR-S is much better for acceleration than the top end of the SRT8.

In the meantime, I'm thinking intake, axle-back and a tune. Should give me enough grunt to evoke more SPG and reduce restrictions to raise MPG as well. Will wait on header and over/downpipe until I decide if I want to go turbo/sc or both. Seeing as I had about 7k into my SRT4, and 9k into my SRT8, this car should get about 10-11k invested before I'm ready to part with it, but then again... I went from a 21k car to a 40k car and back to a 26k car so who knows.

[WolfsFang]

300 whp or 250 wtq what ever comes first. If a turbo/supercharger isent to much I will go for that. Im gussing to get to my goal i will need.
-Exhaust
-Intake
-Headers
-HKS Gasket (low compression)
-Pistons
-Maybe injectors and fuel pump?

[Tainen]

Originally Posted by Dkittrell

Ok let me rephrase that . If you change the header you run the risk of running lean and blowing your motor unless a tune is put on the car to match the system

hmm. We've been watching the AFRs with the headers both on the dyno and on the street- they are pretty much the same as stock. I don't think it's a worry. At least with the nameless. I wouldn't run that junk chinese one we've seen around the forum, it looks terrible and might throw a CEL and/or mess with the motor a bit.

I know I probably sound biased, haha. But it's true, I've had headers on the car for a week with zero issues. no limp mode, no CEL, nice and strong- did over 100 WOT pulls on it during the track day with no issues. That was all after several dyno pulls, data log events, and letting the car idle for a while, so I felt safe doing it. You get what you pay for I guess.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by WolfsFang

300 whp or 250 wtq what ever comes first. If a turbo/supercharger isent to much I will go for that. Im gussing to get to my goal i will need.
-Exhaust
-Intake
-Headers
-HKS Gasket (low compression)
-Pistons
-Maybe injectors and fuel pump?

If you don't go for turbo and leave the car N/A, lowering compression will only result in loosing power, no gains at all. The gasket would be needed when you want to run higher Lbs. on forced injection.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

the great thing about distributorless ignition is that its spark is more accurate and precise because its directly controlled via ECU. It removes so many issues that distributors/wires/and IDI coil packs suffer from.

But when start adding power, especially 30-40-60% more than factory. We have to wonder, is the ECU keeping up with the ignition and power demands to provide the best spark?

In theory, the bad thing about distributorless ignition whe modding, is that its tied directly to the cars main electric source. So if the stock BRZ alternator amp for example, is a measly 40-60 amps you bet your ass your going to have bad ignition properties.

On cars today, there hasn't really been a whole lot of evidence that says that mid-high modded cars running on factory distributorless ignition systems, suffer from break up. But I dont want to ignore the possibilities.

So as a precaution on my mod list..i listed high amp alternator and a CDI box. Just for the peace of mind that no matter what power goals i have, my ignition system wont suffer from any unplanned elements that might occur of my journey for more performance.

Fair enough. I wouldn't argue against being safe, hell I put DSS stage 2 axles on my neon. I was making a quarter of the power they were rated for, but it was nice to not have to worry about then when I was at a track four hours from home, without a leave pass....

That said,I went out and checked the tag on my alternator and it says 12V 130A umungst other numbers. I wouldn't take that as gospel but it seems to me that it's a 130 amp alternator, no problem there. That only leaves the drivers in the ECU. Well and the wiring, but I'm not worried about that.

[WolfsFang]

Originally Posted by sportsguy83

If you don't go for turbo and leave the car N/A, lowering compression will only result in loosing power, no gains at all. The gasket would be needed when you want to run higher Lbs. on forced injection.

thanks for the info. So if i stay NA i will want the higher compression one?

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by Calum

Fair enough. I wouldn't argue against being safe, hell I put DSS stage 2 axles on my neon. I was making a quarter of the power they were rated for, but it was nice to not have to worry about then when I was at a track four hours from home, without a leave pass....

That said,I went out and checked the tag on my alternator and it says 12V 130A umungst other numbers. I wouldn't take that as gospel but it seems to me that it's a 130 amp alternator, no problem there. That only leaves the drivers in the ECU. Well and the wiring, but I'm not worried about that.

oooo 130amp is enough to cycle power for the ignition imo..so maybe a higher output alternator might not be necessary. thanks!

[Asterisked Accolade]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

well lets take your goal... to me...we can search for that extra 50hp..and think thats pretty easy 250hp is doable..

but in reality, im looking at finding 90whp to get to the 250hp goal. getting almost 100hp (90whp) additional out of a 2.0 4cylinder in the past has been pretty ambitious..and even required some engine builders to compromise streetability for performance.

then we have the chassis. Now this car is not exactly heavy. Sure we think 2800lbs is nothing new and its considered light for most modern production cars, my rx7 was 2700lbs and I felt it wasn't as nimble as the FRS around corners. If you take 200-300lbs off the Zx6 chassis, we really start to sacrifice that level of comfort we associate with a well balanced factory sports car. Taking off rear seats + factory seats, sound deadening, removing metal from the chassis, lighter wheels, etc,, by the time we reach 200-300lbs..you might as well strip the car down bare because its no longer that comfortable for street application...

At this point you look at all the stuff you have done...you have a monster...all that work and effort. only to catch up to a modded 350z in performance (in terms of numbers)...while the 350z might even still be more comfortable to drive.

I am not too worried about comfortability. I like a "harsh" ride which the women in my life describe as "riding in a lumber wagon." It's more visceral-- and that's how i like my cars, even on the street. I have a GMC Safari if i feel like riding in plush comfort-- honestly it's like a hotel lounge on wheels. I don't at all mind that i would catch up to a modded 350z. Any modified car would only be catching up to a different less modified car.

Also, there are other members saying they want 300+whp and i don't think they've received the same level of scrutiny you've kind of aimed toward me.

My Celica is stiff and gutted and i don't have a problem with it.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by WolfsFang

thanks for the info. So if i stay NA i will want the higher compression one?

There are different ways to go about it, but as a general rule, if your car is already 12.5:1 compression ratio and you are building an N/A setup, there is no gain in lowering the compression ratio, the only result is lower HP.

The benefit of lowering compression ratio is it allows you to boost to higher psi. Example, both cars with engine built equally, only difference is 9:1 ratio and the other is 12.5:1, is that the 9:1 car will be able to hold higher boost without risking breaking it. This is in very simple terms there are more things into it, but it gives you an idea.

[KAB-FRS]

mine is 750hp by next year, we will see if we can meet that goal

[yuli8466]

200whp. NA setting, 9000+ rpm redline if possible.


250whp. Supercharge if possible. 7500 redline. adding less than 30 lbs of weight.

Your goals seem to be insane.... how can a 350whp/1200kg car be a everyday car.. that's a horsepower monster.