GReddy X KW

[umpadupa]

I'm banking on the higher quality. I hope this is quality dampening with KW fitment quality and ride.

I'll keep this updated as someone writes a review on these.

I'm on the fence with rebuilding my forturne auto or going with these atm.

Originally Posted by switchlanez

I have the original version of ST coilovers for the 86. What annoys me is this past year creaking/clunking started to develop and did not go away after retorquing everything. Also took months for the height to fully settle (had to raise it 3 times because height kept drooping). For peace of mind I was thinking of TRD coilovers (pricey but their parts have given me 0 problems for over a decade on multiple platforms).

These GReddy X KW coilovers got me reconsidering. Exterior construction looks too similar to my ST and makes me hesitant I will get the same drooping and noise issues. But Tor's thread makes me think these are higher build quality. Thoughts?

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by umpadupa

I'm banking on the higher quality. I hope this is quality dampening with KW fitment quality and ride.

I'll keep this updated as someone writes a review on these.

I'm on the fence with rebuilding my forturne auto or going with these atm.

If you are more concerned with quality than the specific 5k/7k tuned spring rate, Cusco makes a 5k/5k Street Zero (height and camber adjustable) or Street Zero A (adds dampening adjustment) and supposedly also makes TRD coilovers (see http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113139) which are 3.5k/5.8k, likely different valving and springs also still made by Cusco. TRD Japan puts their brand on quality parts; you can get similar quality with Cusco shipped faster and for less.

[Jarlax]

Anybody know of any black friday deals on these kw x greddy coils?

[Tor]

Found this photo on Facebook (picture reposted for educational purposes). Looks like 5 kg spring in the rear to me. And 200 mm long. Same as what is printed on my XTA spring.

[Joe-G]

bump!

anyone have these yet? Would love to hear some opinions.

[jamal]

Originally Posted by Tor

Found this photo on Facebook (picture reposted for educational purposes). Looks like 5 kg spring in the rear to me. And 200 mm long. Same as what is printed on my XTA spring.

Slight nitpick: 50 means 50n/mm which is not exactly 5 kg/mm, because you divide by g, not 10. Close enough though (it's 5.1k).

So they're not eactually 5k/7k springs like it says here:

http://www.greddy.com/products/suspension/greddy-kw/

Then no, I don't expect there is much different between these and the ST XTA or kw v2 besides colors, and they are using the galvanized housing. Greddy had the chance to use more appropriate spring rates but didn't. It's really the only thing I don't like about the standard KW/ST stuff- you get a really soft rear spring that will make it ride nice but ends up increasing understeer.

[Tor]

Originally Posted by jamal

Slight nitpick: 50 means 50n/mm which is not exactly 5 kg/mm, because you divide by g, not 10. Close enough though (it's 5.1k).

So they're not eactually 5k/7k springs like it says here:

http://www.greddy.com/products/suspension/greddy-kw/

Then no, I don't expect there is much different between these and the ST XTA or kw v2 besides colors, and they are using the galvanized housing. Greddy had the chance to use more appropriate spring rates but didn't. It's really the only thing I don't like about the standard KW/ST stuff- you get a really soft rear spring that will make it ride nice but ends up increasing understeer.

Yes, correct... but I think a lot of people would get lost if I wrote 50 n/mm. As you say /10 is close enough.

I think you are wrong about the KW stuff:
V3: 40 n/mm front 50 n/mm rear
Clubsport: 60 n/mm front 70 n/mm rear

Also, I think you are not quite correct in your judgement on the ST XTA (and greedy as it would seem) 60 front 50 rear n/mm springrate. It's a matter of how you set up the car otherwise. I have ST's (well, KW painted grey) 2 position adjustable anti swaybars. With the front in the soft and the rear in the hard position, the car is not understeery at all. According to fellow FT86 drivers locally, the KW V3 needs it the other way around. Front swaybar hard and rear soft.

[jamal]

Oh, well I was not only talking about this platform. For the other subarus kw goes way soft in the rear which I don't like.

40/50 and 60/70 for these cars makes way more sense so I guess then I don't get why greddy went to 7k/5k.

And yeah you can definitely change the balance with swaybars, but on a rwd car I would rather have the smallest rear bar possible, which will usually improve grip on corner exit.

[Tor]

Originally Posted by jamal

Oh, well I was not only talking about this platform. For the other subarus kw goes way soft in the rear which I don't like.

40/50 and 60/70 for these cars makes way more sense so I guess then I don't get why greddy went to 7k/5k.

I think they just got KW to rebadge the XTAs. The question should rather be: Why did KW go with 7/5k on their ST XTA series.

My suggestions for that:

KW's (expensive'ish) target is the family dad who want a sportier suspension but don't want to get in trouble with his wife (she would probably find a V3 acceptable).

ST's (budget) target is the youth. Ken Block, Monster, hoonigan marketing. So comfort is less of a priority. Hence the 60 n/mm front spring, camber adjustability etc. Still it's pretty safe as it understeers if you go too hard on the throttle mid corner.

And yeah you can definitely change the balance with swaybars, but on a rwd car I would rather have the smallest rear bar possible, which will usually improve grip on corner exit.

If that is your goal, why not the lower spring rate in the rear? That increases the exit grip too. The mid corner understeer can corrected by trailbraking more and being less aggressive on the throttle mid corner. If laptime is the goal, I actually think that might faster, because you can push harder with less risk. Personally I find the rear swaybar set to hard more entertaining which is my primary goal above laptimes.

Wayno wrote the following in my journal. I think that is probably true after trying different things out:

6/5Kg are a good spring rate for stock bars on street tyres. The fast guys here use a higher rate on the front and push the car around the corners. I don't like that very much, but it's certainly fast when you can plant your foot down mid corner and know it's not going to swap ends.

Another thing to consider to change the balance besides swaybars is toe. I went from slight toe in in the front to slight toe out. That made the car a lot less understeery too. Probably a bigger effect than the swaybar.

[JazzleSAURUS]

Originally Posted by jamal

Oh, well I was not only talking about this platform. For the other subarus kw goes way soft in the rear which I don't like.

40/50 and 60/70 for these cars makes way more sense so I guess then I don't get why greddy went to 7k/5k.

And yeah you can definitely change the balance with swaybars, but on a rwd car I would rather have the smallest rear bar possible, which will usually improve grip on corner exit.

I run ST coilovers in my Forester XT, and paired it with a 24mm rear sway on medium stiffness, and an STi 16mm front sway bar. The two sways occurred after the coilovers, and went rear then front. They make the car perfect imo.

[Tor]

Check out this post from my journal. There is a few video clips with toe in and the both swaybars set to soft. It's not like it's only understeering.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=98

Here the rear set to hard and toe out:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBuEeUIBCdI"]"The only negative in your life should be camber and toe" - YouTube[/ame]

[jamal]

Originally Posted by Tor

If that is your goal, why not the lower spring rate in the rear? That increases the exit grip too. The mid corner understeer can corrected by trailbraking more and being less aggressive on the throttle mid corner. If laptime is the goal, I actually think that might faster, because you can push harder with less risk. Personally I find the rear swaybar set to hard more entertaining which is my primary goal above laptimes.

Getting off topic, but, more spring instead of a bigger bar tends to give better rear suspension independence and better traction when things aren't nice and smooth, plus you have to compromise with the damping. If your shock is set to control the springs plus a big swaybar while cornering it is going to be overdamped in a straight line.

In reality, yes we use big swaybars sometimes and yes they work, but there is a trade off either way. On a rwd car I like to keep the rear bar small. On my awd car it's the biggest one I could buy.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by jamal

Greddy had the chance to use more appropriate spring rates but didn't.

Because anything that deviates from standard stuff costs money.

I can go out tomorrow and ask Enkei to make me a RPF1 in 17x9" +25 5-100 and have an aggressive wheel size for a very niche market with my own branding. Or, I can just buy large qty of 17x9" +35 and make my own stickers and center cap, and brand it however I want (w/ Enkei's approval)...

If Greddy wanted their own spec on an existing KW coilover, it wouldn't sell for that price.

[Joe-G]

Originally Posted by Tor

Found this photo on Facebook (picture reposted for educational purposes). Looks like 5 kg spring in the rear to me. And 200 mm long. Same as what is printed on my XTA spring.

Not sure if that's right... but where did you find that photo?

I've been trying to decide on a new set of coils, and this seems to fit the bill. I like the softer front springs, and KW has a good reputation. I'm fairly sold on these, other than the claim that its not a 6k/7k setup... Are you sure your source is right?

Here's a photo of a FRS specific set I found on ebay. The front springs are clearly marked as 60-170 (60 N/mm).

Originally Posted by jamal

Slight nitpick: 50 means 50n/mm which is not exactly 5 kg/mm, because you divide by g, not 10. Close enough though (it's 5.1k).

So they're not eactually 5k/7k springs like it says here:

http://www.greddy.com/products/suspension/greddy-kw/

Then no, I don't expect there is much different between these and the ST XTA or kw v2 besides colors, and they are using the galvanized housing. Greddy had the chance to use more appropriate spring rates but didn't. It's really the only thing I don't like about the standard KW/ST stuff- you get a really soft rear spring that will make it ride nice but ends up increasing understeer.

I dont think they were ever marketed as 5k/7k (F/R)...