Need some advice on engine guys!

[dsteezy86]

So I want to start putting more mods into my engine. But I don't want to go FI. Don't track or anything like that. I'm basically done visually with my car so I just want it to be a little more fun to drive. I have a TRD intake already and an MXP exhaust coming in.

I was thinking about getting the Raceng pulley kit and the grams 72mm throttle body. Just wondering if it's worth it and the pros and cons.

Thanks in advance!

[Clipdat]

Do you already have OFT?

[new2subaru]

This is a really good read.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81493

[Sapphireho]

No, none of those is going to get you big power gains. A millimeter bigger throttle body will just empty your wallet, some say they feel a difference with pulleys, I say it is all in their minds. The car has 100 hp per liter, it is already pushing it without drastic changes, like FI.

Best bang for your buck NA for HP gain is some good pipes, and e85 tune. My 2 cents.

[phanguy]

i think it depends on your end goals. for me i wanted something that was going to give proven performance and reliability and also let me stay carb legal. the carb legal was the biggest issue because we live in california. at least as of now there is no combination of bolt on/ecu mods you can make that will also keep you carb legal. if you don't give a crap about carb then i would agree about good headers and tune/e85. if carb matters then look at the edelbrock or jackson. works has a turbo, but it's still new and i don't know how proven it is in terms of reliability. i personally have the jackson and while i have issues with it(probably cause i bought mine second hand) i'm still very happy with it.

i think the best way to get an idea of what you should do is to find a forum member that has stayed NA but with bolt ons/tune to see how it feels to you and then same with a member that has boosted.

[dsteezy86]

Originally Posted by Clipdat

Do you already have OFT?

I don't. Would I need that?

[dsteezy86]

I actually would like to stay carb legal. I just want to feel a little more power in my hands. The car gets kind of boring to me sometime. Gets me wanting more. I've heard a lot of ppl say they get a better drive from pulleys. And I thought the throttle body would just be a good combo with my new exhaust.

[PMok]

echoing what others have said above. you need to ask yourself what you want. You said you don't want FI, so the way I see it you have two or three options.

Do you care about remaining (or at least appearing) CARB legal? If yes, your options are limited. The two easiest things you can do to add power is to get the OFT so you can reflash the ECU, and switch to E85 fuel. That will net you about +20hp and make the car feel a lot peppier. There really isn't much downside to the OFT other than cost, and the inconvenience of running E85 without a full flex-fuel setup is a consideration. That latter part is what made me move on to FI.

If you don't care about CARB then on top of the OFT, add catless headers, overpipe and front pipe (or run a high-flow cat in the front pipe) and run OFT stage 2 tune. Running on 91 you will get about +20hp (same effect as staying stock and running E85 fuel above), add E85 and you will be making about +30hp. If you have more money to spend add a flex-fuel setup. At this point you will have done all the best-bang-for-the-buck mods for power.

Pulleys, throttle body mods, drivetrain mods like lightened flywheels and driveshafts, and anything else in that category... won't do much. They are expensive and won't net you much power, but maybe they look nice and could help you win shows or the admiration of your peers as part of a comprehensive mod list if you care about that.

[Xxyion]

If you want to feel how a car handles or drives hit me up at one of the local meets. I'll let you drive mine. I'm running UEL headers with a stage 2 tune. I personally dont care much about CARB (i probably should) but the car is definetly a different animal at this point.

Also remember straight power isnt the only way to make your car more exciting to drive.

Get some lighter wheels, add some support bars. Switch some parts to Carbon Fiber. All that weight reduction makes a HUGE difference. My first few mods were nothing but weight reduction and aero. And the difference was massive over stock.

If you dont want to get headers then still go OFT stage 1 as PMOK was saying. Big difference in the way it drives.

And lastly dont forget about your clutch or shifter. It's a simple 10 minute adjustment for the clutch mod you can do yourself and add in a whiteline shift bushing and some shifter springs and the difference is massive.

It sounds like to me you just want your drive to be more exciting. That doesnt necessarily mean more power. With just my bolt on mods and stage 2 tune the car for me is a blast to drive no matter what i'm doing.

[dsteezy86]

Originally Posted by Xxyion

If you want to feel how a car handles or drives hit me up at one of the local meets. I'll let you drive mine. I'm running UEL headers with a stage 2 tune. I personally dont care much about CARB (i probably should) but the car is definetly a different animal at this point.

Also remember straight power isnt the only way to make your car more exciting to drive.

Get some lighter wheels, add some support bars. Switch some parts to Carbon Fiber. All that weight reduction makes a HUGE difference. My first few mods were nothing but weight reduction and aero. And the difference was massive over stock.

If you dont want to get headers then still go OFT stage 1 as PMOK was saying. Big difference in the way it drives.

And lastly dont forget about your clutch or shifter. It's a simple 10 minute adjustment for the clutch mod you can do yourself and add in a whiteline shift bushing and some shifter springs and the difference is massive.

It sounds like to me you just want your drive to be more exciting. That doesnt necessarily mean more power. With just my bolt on mods and stage 2 tune the car for me is a blast to drive no matter what i'm doing.

Will def take u up on that offer. I want to see how much different it will be. Might also give me a good idea if I actually want to add a bunch more power or if I just want a more "exciting" drive. Plus my car is on air and a little aggressive set of wheels. I just feel like I should put my "race car seat" to better use than just driving to the grocery store haha

[dsteezy86]

Originally Posted by PMok

echoing what others have said above. you need to ask yourself what you want. You said you don't want FI, so the way I see it you have two or three options.

Do you care about remaining (or at least appearing) CARB legal? If yes, your options are limited. The two easiest things you can do to add power is to get the OFT so you can reflash the ECU, and switch to E85 fuel. That will net you about +20hp and make the car feel a lot peppier. There really isn't much downside to the OFT other than cost, and the inconvenience of running E85 without a full flex-fuel setup is a consideration. That latter part is what made me move on to FI.

If you don't care about CARB then on top of the OFT, add catless headers, overpipe and front pipe (or run a high-flow cat in the front pipe) and run OFT stage 2 tune. Running on 91 you will get about +20hp (same effect as staying stock and running E85 fuel above), add E85 and you will be making about +30hp. If you have more money to spend add a flex-fuel setup. At this point you will have done all the best-bang-for-the-buck mods for power.

Pulleys, throttle body mods, drivetrain mods like lightened flywheels and driveshafts, and anything else in that category... won't do much. They are expensive and won't net you much power, but maybe they look nice and could help you win shows or the admiration of your peers as part of a comprehensive mod list if you care about that.

I think I def want to stay CARB. My cars color is already "loud" as is. And I live in alameda. I stick out to police. Been pulled over twice. For nothing. Reading what all of u have to say is making me double think FI if I really want to add more power AND stay CARB legal

[phanguy]

in terms of rotational mass (pulleys, driveshaft, wheels, etc) i think you can definitely feel a difference, but i don't think it makes as big a difference in our car as in some other cars(huge improvement in my old VR4 cause that oem driveshaft is a monster). i think the issue though is that after changing all the rotational mass items you're already potentially pushing 1500-2k+. you'll certainly get a different feeling from your car, but i don't know if that is what you'll be looking for in terms of feel.

[finch1750]

Shorter final drive would probably fit the bill. Slower top speed for faster accel. And all carb compliant still. The OFT would be a good choice also.

Proper wheel will help a bit too. Not a whole bunch of weight to cut on the car without going extreme (hood and trunk are aluminum so even the CF stuff is heavier unless its dry carbon which is $$$). Google weight reduction on the site and there is a master thread on part weights or @Anthony crazy build thread

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by dsteezy86

I actually would like to stay carb legal. I just want to feel a little more power in my hands. The car gets kind of boring to me sometime. Gets me wanting more. I've heard a lot of ppl say they get a better drive from pulleys. And I thought the throttle body would just be a good combo with my new exhaust.

You are οn a good track. I've installed a pulley kit in my own car and it definitely works in low gears (1st-4th). The engine is small and it helps to accelerate when you save weight from the rotational mass. Some might say that they didn't feel any difference, but they don't understand that this is a NA car. You'll never feel it pushing you hard after a mod, when before it didn't push. If you want such a difference, then you need to go FI or to spend LOTS of money.

Regarding the throttle body, I don't have a personal experience. However, it is one of the next mods in my list. Keep in mind that this is a more tricky modification and you need to buy this from a manufacturer with good reputation and who knows what he is doing. For example, in this modification you don't need only to have a larger diameter. Going too large means that the shape will be less tapered and you will not use so much the Venturi effect.



For your information, the OEM throttle body uses the Venturi effect. The entrance diameter is 71mm and then the shape goes tapered with a diameter of 65mm.