BRZ vs McLaren 570S

[Sport-Tech]

No, this isn't a joke, there'a point to be made here.... not a new one, admittedly, but entertainingly expressed.

There's a great review of the 570S by probably Canada's best auto journalist here:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...ticle31539914/

I found the following comment illuminating, and in densely trafficked urban areas I find it applies not just to supercars but just about any car that does the 1/4 in less than 14 seconds:

This is the supercar conundrum. Day to day, I felt like a pilot who had strapped himself into an F22 jetfighter, only to be denied access to an airport. I taxied the streets of Toronto in my killer machine, longing for a takeoff that never came. There were brief moments when I was allowed to glimpse the promised land – I railed the McLaren through a long onramp, pulling more than a G of lateral force, and merged onto Highway 400 like a Star Trek attack pod, accelerating at warp speed. But then it was over, in a process that can only be described as the automotive equivalent of coitus interruptus. The McLaren was just getting started, but there were speed limits to respect, a driver’s license to preserve and jail to avoid. I clicked on the cruise control and droned north in my magnificent orange bird, its wings clipped.

That's a great argument for the twins over any high-powered sportscar you don't track and try to drive in urban areas. I'd love a nice Porsche or 488 as much as any enthusiast, but let's get real - even stomping on the gas on an on-ramp in my 140 hp, 2600 lb coupe at 40 MPH I am reaching license-losing speeds in under 15 seconds. The frustration of driving something 2 or 3 times quicker as a daily in traffic must be immense, and would likely having me saying sayonara to my driving privileges after succumbing once too often to temptation.

[nikitopo]

Guys who buy Porsches, Ferraris and so on buy them because they just can. And you don't have to drive in urban areas like having an F22 jetfighter. This attitude is for morons who want to show their ego through the car. You can also drive such cars like ordinary city cars. I am seeing everyday very expensive and fast cars and the drivers are typical with the speed limits.

[Sport-Tech]

??? Nobody here was advocating that you drive these cars like "a moron" - the point is that for a driving enthusiast (i.e. not a poseur) they're a huge source of frustration precisely because you can't use their capabilities on the street.

When I drove my father's 911 as a teenager I remember that feeling - the car had such high limits anything under twice the speed limit was just so booooring.

[Pat]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Guys who buy Porsches, Ferraris and so on buy them because they just can. And you don't have to drive in urban areas like having an F22 jetfighter. This attitude is for morons who want to show their ego through the car. You can also drive such cars like ordinary city cars. I am seeing everyday very expensive and fast cars and the drivers are typical with the speed limits.

I disagree with this. Some of the most hard core car people I know buy Porsches. They drive them at their limits on a regular basis, and appreciate all of the detail put into building them. To make a blanket statement saying they "buy them because they just can" is inaccurate at best. At worst, well....
I had a 986 for a couple years and loved it. It performed better than the BRZ and cost $10,000 less. It was built better, more comfortable, more reliable and just more fun. Oh, and my total cost of ownership for those two years was a fraction of my total cost of ownership relative to my BRZ.
I don't really care what badge is on the car I drive, and don't care much about how a car looks. If it is fun and inexpensive, chances are I'll like it.
I do think modern cars have such fantastic performance that it's gotten a little silly considering our driving laws. But that doesn't change the fact that they are fantastic cars and a ton of fun when you have an environment in which to exploit the performance.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

??? Nobody here was advocating that you drive these cars like "a moron" - the point is that for a driving enthusiast (i.e. not a poseur) they're a huge source of frustration precisely because you can't use their capabilities on the street.

When I drove my father's 911 as a teenager I remember that feeling - the car had such high limits anything under twice the speed limit was just so booooring.

Maybe because you were driving this car as a teenager. The majority of people driving these cars I believe that they are far from this age category. These people have different priorities. Probably they want to feel a bit younger, more attractive, have a weekend fun and in general they'll buy such a car because they have the money. These kind of people will never consider buying a Subaru.

Originally Posted by Pat

I disagree with this. Some of the most hard core car people I know buy Porsches. They drive them at their limits on a regular basis, and appreciate all of the detail put into building them. To make a blanket statement saying they "buy them because they just can" is inaccurate at best. At worst, well....

I still believe that the majority of people buying the Porsches and the other premium category cars belong into another category. It is my opinion ...

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by Pat

Oh, and my total cost of ownership for those two years was a fraction of my total cost of ownership relative to my BRZ.

Not that I don't believe you, but you must have had some really great luck with the Porsche or some really bad luck with your BRZ (or both)

[sofrsnsokleen]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

No, this isn't a joke, there'a point to be made here.... not a new one, admittedly, but entertainingly expressed.

There's a great review of the 570S by probably Canada's best auto journalist here:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...ticle31539914/

I found the following comment illuminating, and in densely trafficked urban areas I find it applies not just to supercars but just about any car that does the 1/4 in less than 14 seconds:

This is the supercar conundrum. Day to day, I felt like a pilot who had strapped himself into an F22 jetfighter, only to be denied access to an airport. I taxied the streets of Toronto in my killer machine, longing for a takeoff that never came. There were brief moments when I was allowed to glimpse the promised land – I railed the McLaren through a long onramp, pulling more than a G of lateral force, and merged onto Highway 400 like a Star Trek attack pod, accelerating at warp speed. But then it was over, in a process that can only be described as the automotive equivalent of coitus interruptus. The McLaren was just getting started, but there were speed limits to respect, a driver’s license to preserve and jail to avoid. I clicked on the cruise control and droned north in my magnificent orange bird, its wings clipped.

That's a great argument for the twins over any high-powered sportscar you don't track and try to drive in urban areas. I'd love a nice Porsche or 488 as much as any enthusiast, but let's get real - even stomping on the gas on an on-ramp in my 140 hp, 2600 lb coupe at 40 MPH I am reaching license-losing speeds in under 15 seconds. The frustration of driving something 2 or 3 times quicker as a daily in traffic must be immense, and would likely having me saying sayonara to my driving privileges after succumbing once too often to temptation.

I actually felt similar test driving a mustang gt a few years ago. It was really cool and powerful but it was just not worth the extra money to be a bit faster gettting onto the highway or driving on the highway. I don't speed really more than 10 mph over the limit on the highway and rarely. Sometimes its better to driver a slow car fast than a fast car slow

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by sofrsnsokleen

I actually felt similar test driving a mustang gt a few years ago. It was really cool and powerful but it was just not worth the extra money to be a bit faster gettting onto the highway or driving on the highway. I don't speed really more than 10 mph over the limit on the highway and rarely. Sometimes its better to driver a slow car fast than a fast car slow

When was the last revision of the speed limits? In the late 60's? At that period a 200hp car was considered in the range of a super car. Issue is that engine technology evolved since then, but maybe not so much the road constructions etc. Governments didn't want to pay ...

[johl]

its much more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. This comparison reminds me of riding a motorbike. I always had much more fun on my triumph 675r because it was so light and nimble. but when I rode a 1000+cc bike it didn't even compare. yes it was fast, but no where near as fun

[guybo]

If you buy a 570s and you don't take it to the track every now and again, you're doing it wrong. But to have that sort of performance on tap whenever you need it- say in a normal highway passing situation, is nice even if you aren't on the limit.

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by sofrsnsokleen

I actually felt similar test driving a mustang gt a few years ago. It was really cool and powerful but it was just not worth the extra money to be a bit faster gettting onto the highway or driving on the highway. I don't speed really more than 10 mph over the limit on the highway and rarely. Sometimes its better to driver a slow[ish] car fast than a fast car slow

QFT

[Pat]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Not that I don't believe you, but you must have had some really great luck with the Porsche or some really bad luck with your BRZ (or both)

That was with the Porsche out of warranty and the BRZ in warranty.
Porsches are generally some of the most reliable vehicles on the road.
Keep in mind, total cost of ownership includes depreciation. The BRZ was new. The Boxster was maybe ten years old and almost fully depreciated.

[shattered_memory]

While I somewhat understand the point behind this, you still can't have much fun in any car without breaking the law on the street. Even if you are driving a brz/frs.

[johl]

Originally Posted by Pat

That was with the Porsche out of warranty and the BRZ in warranty.
Porsches are generally some of the most reliable vehicles on the road.
Keep in mind, total cost of ownership includes depreciation. The BRZ was new. The Boxster was maybe ten years old and almost fully depreciated.

I haven't driven a boxster for many years but my memories of them were not great. In my mind I don't even put them in the same category as other porsches. I always thought they were the Porsche that people buy only to say that they own one.

hopefully I am wrong and they are a great car now