YES! AWD Turbo BRZ in the works for sure!!!

[Zadkiel]

I just can't see the point of a turbo. Shed some 100-200lbs in weight, remove the rear seats if need be, more aggressive suspension tuning, bigger brakes, better exhaust and intake, and a better ECU tune. You'd have a 2500lb car with 250-275hp. This car doesn't need a turbo.

Everyone is obsessed with FI to the point where if it isn't turbo then it needs to be somewhere along the line. I had a 240SX with an SR swap that weighed about 2300lbs, had 300hp, and made every attempt to kill me. 250-275hp in a 2500lb car is plenty fast enough.

AWD is not even an option on this. Every single part of the front suspension and chassis would need modifying to even get close to accepting the required AWD components. Adding almost 300lbs worth of weight to the front end and only bumping hp to 300 would result in almost exactly the same 0-60 times but with worse handling characteristics.

[TheRipler]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

Firstly, I'm no proponent of an "N/A only" BRZ, nor do I think the BRZ is "perfect" as-is. I'll be bolting a supercharger to that thing as soon as a proper kit comes out. My beef is with all-wheel-drive. It's a ridiculous proposition in this car, and anyone who thinks this car needs it is totally missing the point.

As for the TT, I was being perfectly serious. If a WRX base price is $25,595 and a WRX STi starts at $34,095, what makes you think the BRZ's base price of $25,495 isn't gonna jump nearly $10k with AWD and a turbo, too? $38k for an Audi TT is a relative bargain, and it ticks all the boxes of what everyone seems to want: light weight, all-wheel-drive, turbo, quick, sexy and affordable. It effectively is what the BRZ would be with AWD and a turbo, except with an aluminum space frame.

What exactly does a $200k limited production über-Porsche have to do with this argument? And BTW, the GT2 RS is rear-wheel-drive

Well, you got me. It's been a while since I've seen a GT2. Guess I'll have to turn down my milestone to the anemic 997 Turbo.

Perhaps it's just me, but low end Audis don't do it for me anymore. In fact, none of the alternatives thrown out in here spark any interest for me.

I don't actually think they will make an AWD version, but I still don't see what's wrong with wanting. We can call it a BRX if it makes everyone feel better. If they don't make one, it will just make my life more difficult. Maybe even a hybrid would be OK, with just electrics on the front. Hey, how about a full on diesel electric hybrid, and put the motor wherever you want.

I'm still holding the prediction of a turbo for MY 2015. It's going to happen.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

If they want teams to start using the WRX in the WRC again, they have to make it smaller. Current WRC cars are build on the Super2000 rules with cars the size of the Ford Fiesta. The current outgoing WRX is way too big and heavy to be competitive in the WRC.

I'm thinking the cries for a small, turbo, AWD coupe will be answered with the new clean-sheet WRX

I'm of the same opinion, which is why people need to stop bitching about an AWD BRZ.

[WillieRX]

I figured that AWD will not come to this car, and I don't expect it to. However, I think F/I will very much benefit the car, especially to us people at 6,000+ ft (8,000+ ft regularly for me). NA engines, especially 4-cylinder, lose alot of power up here. A good way to fix that problem is forced induction. So I am all for a F/I BRZ down the road. I don't think a 250HP NA engine will mitigate the altitude issue.

I do think, if/when they make a upper performance version of this car, they should at "least" attempt to get it around the 10-11 lbs / 1 HP ratio.

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

True, the drag on the engine is much higher with a supercharger. But the trade off is worth it in my opinion.

I own an STI and a WRX. The STI is just stage 1, power-wise, but the WRX is a full stage 2. With the WRX's little donut-sized turbo, it spools nearly instantly. But it still doesn't have the throttle response that a N/A engine does. As powerful as the STI is, it feels downright sleepy compared to the BRZ.

I think blunting the engine's response would be counter-productive to the BRZ's chassis.

They need to keep it normally aspirated or go with twin turbos with each turbo have twin scrolls. But we talking mad expensive!

Just give ups 250HP and 185 ft/lbs torque NA and we are good. They could also easily shave off 100 pounds from this car too..

[Zadkiel]

Originally Posted by WillieRX

I figured that AWD will not come to this car, and I don't expect it to. However, I think F/I will very much benefit the car, especially to us people at 6,000+ ft (8,000+ ft regularly for me). NA engines, especially 4-cylinder, lose alot of power up here. A good way to fix that problem is forced induction. So I am all for a F/I BRZ down the road. I don't think a 250HP NA engine will mitigate the altitude issue.

I do think, if/when they make a upper performance version of this car, they should at "least" attempt to get it around the 10-11 lbs / 1 HP ratio.

It'd require a lot of engine work to get FI though. The FA20's compression is up in the 12's right?

[WillieRX]

Originally Posted by Zadkiel

It'd require a lot of engine work to get FI though. The FA20's compression is up in the 12's right?

Yeah, that high compression would pose a problem if just a S/C or T/C was thrown on as-is. I imagine if TRD/SPT/STi (whoever the factory developer will be) were to smack on a S/C on the engine as it stands, it probably would be low boost, even then it would be very beneficial at high altitude.

But for higher boost applications, my guess is methods to lowering compression such as different pistons, different combustion chamber setup etc...

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by Zadkiel

It'd require a lot of engine work to get FI though. The FA20's compression is up in the 12's right?

Originally Posted by WillieRX

Yeah, that high compression would pose a problem if just a S/C or T/C was thrown on as-is. I imagine if TRD/SPT/STi (whoever the factory developer will be) were to smack on a S/C on the engine as it stands, it probably would be low boost, even then it would be very beneficial at high altitude.

But for higher boost applications, my guess is methods to lowering compression such as different pistons, different combustion chamber setup etc...

No it would not require a lot of engine work. Not if you run low boost. If detonation is still an issue, and you don't want to tear into the block, then you would tune it with Methanol Injection to keep the temps down. It should not require a lot of boost anyway due to the compression. Minimal boost should break the 250whp+ range easily.

[Zadkiel]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

No it would not require a lot of engine work. Not if you run low boost. If detonation is still an issue, and you don't want to tear into the block, then you would tune it with Methanol Injection to keep the temps down. It should not require a lot of boost anyway due to the compression. Minimal boost should break the 250whp+ range easily.

But then why even take the risk when intake and exhaust tuning from the aftermarket has already shown 7-15hp gains? Tune the intake and exhaust, give the ECU with a more aggressive tune, and find other areas to gather some more hp and you'll have 250hp easily. Then you don't have to worry about the extra compression from the turbo.

Couple that with even more weight savings and you'd have a mid-high 5 second 0-60. That's not even counting a more aggressive suspension setup, wider tires, improved brakes, and stickier rubber. Then you A. Eliminate the need for a turbo that would increase delay in response and B. retain the overall balance of the car.

They wouldn't need to engineer new mounting points for new components and they'd be able to offer it without charging an insane amount. I'd say about $2000-$3000 over the Limited.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by Zadkiel

But then why even take the risk when intake and exhaust tuning from the aftermarket has already shown 7-15hp gains? Tune the intake and exhaust, give the ECU with a more aggressive tune, and find other areas to gather some more hp and you'll have 250hp easily. Then you don't have to worry about the extra compression from the turbo.

Couple that with even more weight savings and you'd have a mid-high 5 second 0-60. That's not even counting a more aggressive suspension setup, wider tires, improved brakes, and stickier rubber. Then you A. Eliminate the need for a turbo that would increase delay in response and B. retain the overall balance of the car.

They wouldn't need to engineer new mounting points for new components and they'd be able to offer it without charging an insane amount. I'd say about $2000-$3000 over the Limited.

Risk is how you learn. Play it safe and you get left behind is how I see it. Pioneers are ones who take risk....Adding Methanol injection to the tune may be considered a risk to some, but it's a very well calculated one. Especially if it's done by a well respected and reputable shop who knows what they are doing. Not just blow schmoe at Lubes R Us.

7-15 vs 100....that could be a possible reason, just saying. A lot of people are talking about throttle response of N/A and what not. That stance is very valid....for "track" people. I don't think the vast majority of people on here talking about it though, are real hardcore track junkies. And if you don't plan on taking this to the track quite often and you just want that extra kick out of your street car, then throttle response takes more of a back seat and power is more of a desirable factor.

Sorry, but not everyone wants to build an N/A machine this is a given. It is the inevitable that someone will want to do 400, 500, 600+ whp out of an FR-S/BRZ and you are not getting there the N/A route, nor are you going to be faster N/A than a 500whp F/I version. Maybe if you did an N/A build + tuned on a 100shot then you would have power and throttle response. But again...throttle isn't going to be that much of a factor on a street car.

The whole turbo setup throwing off balance doesn't hold any weight to me. The benefits drastically out weigh that extra what 50lbs you added.

There are going to be guys slamming it to the ground with heavy but nice looking wheels, audio systems that weigh way more than a turbo setup and the like, so a turbo setup is welcomed for the sake of R&D from a performance stand point. Besides, there is already a turbo setup being developed, so it will be nice to see what power can be made.

[yuli8466]

Originally Posted by ngabdala

Fuck yeah!

http://skiddmark.com/2012/06/subaru-...esomeness-way/

what you want is a high-tuned legacy gt ( turbo, awd, big power)

[czar07]

wont EVER happen from factory.

Subaru will keep the FI for the WRX and toyota is already working on the bigger brother for the 86, probably FI(fingers crossed for Supra!)

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by czar07

wont EVER happen from factory.

Subaru will keep the FI for the WRX and toyota is already working on the bigger brother for the 86, probably FI(fingers crossed for Supra!)

Ill quote you again when you are wrong.

[Zadkiel]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

Risk is how you learn. Play it safe and you get left behind is how I see it. Pioneers are ones who take risk....Adding Methanol injection to the tune may be considered a risk to some, but it's a very well calculated one. Especially if it's done by a well respected and reputable shop who knows what they are doing. Not just blow schmoe at Lubes R Us.

7-15 vs 100....that could be a possible reason, just saying. A lot of people are talking about throttle response of N/A and what not. That stance is very valid....for "track" people. I don't think the vast majority of people on here talking about it though, are real hardcore track junkies. And if you don't plan on taking this to the track quite often and you just want that extra kick out of your street car, then throttle response takes more of a back seat and power is more of a desirable factor.

Sorry, but not everyone wants to build an N/A machine this is a given. It is the inevitable that someone will want to do 400, 500, 600+ whp out of an FR-S/BRZ and you are not getting there the N/A route, nor are you going to be faster N/A than a 500whp F/I version. Maybe if you did an N/A build + tuned on a 100shot then you would have power and throttle response. But again...throttle isn't going to be that much of a factor on a street car.

The whole turbo setup throwing off balance doesn't hold any weight to me. The benefits drastically out weigh that extra what 50lbs you added.

There are going to be guys slamming it to the ground with heavy but nice looking wheels, audio systems that weigh way more than a turbo setup and the like, so a turbo setup is welcomed for the sake of R&D from a performance stand point. Besides, there is already a turbo setup being developed, so it will be nice to see what power can be made.

B was in reference to the AWD throwing off the weight. I think you're confused though. I'm talking about FROM THE FACTORY. The aftermarket can do whatever the heck they want to it. A factory built BRZ STi would be NA in the realm of 250hp, lose about 100lbs-200lbs, bigger brakes, better tires(wider, stickier), and probably have the suspension tuned more aggressively on a FACTORY BUILT BRZ Sti.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by Zadkiel

B was in reference to the AWD throwing off the weight. I think you're confused though. I'm talking about FROM THE FACTORY. The aftermarket can do whatever the heck they want to it. A factory built BRZ STi would be NA in the realm of 250hp, lose about 100lbs-200lbs, bigger brakes, better tires(wider, stickier), and probably have the suspension tuned more aggressively on a FACTORY BUILT BRZ Sti.

If you are talking about from the factory, then why speak of compression? You mentioned high compression. If they were going to make a factory F/I BRZ/FR-S then they would lower the compression naturally. So, when you spoke of the high compression and how boost would be require a lot of motor work...I naturally thought you were talking about aftermarket. Cause a OEM would not make a high compression + boosted car. Not this day and age.

[OrbitalEllipses]

A factory STI version would probably gain weight...you guys do know the (Impreza) STI weighs more than the WRX?

[WillieRX]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

If you are talking about from the factory, then why speak of compression? You mentioned high compression. If they were going to make a factory F/I BRZ/FR-S then they would lower the compression naturally. So, when you spoke of the high compression and how boost would be require a lot of motor work...I naturally thought you were talking about aftermarket. Cause a OEM would not make a high compression + boosted car. Not this day and age.

If i remember correctly, don't they already have tested and tuned turbo FA20 going into the Legacy soon? I believe it produces around 290 -300 HP. If they are considering the turbo route, I can see them potentially just throwing that setup into the BRZ. I thought I read around here about a TRD Supercharger as well. If its a potential supercharger route, then I can only speculate that it will be a low boost application (at least if they keep the very high compression).

Again, my thoughts are that Subaru force induces almost every single one of their vehicles at some time (ie Forester, Impreza, Legacy, not sure on the Tribeca or the Outback). Which ever route (T/C or S/C), I think forced induction is a good option from the factory on the car, especially for us high altitude folks.

I don't think that a N/A 250HP 4-cylinder will be adequate for the high altitude crowd. Now... maybe if they dropped one of their new Boxer 6-cylinders....
*braces himself for the potential oncoming bashing*

[civicdrivr]

Originally Posted by Article

turbocharging, all-wheel drive and even bigger capacity engines are all on the product team’s to-do list.

A blow job from Scarlett Johansson is on my to-do list too, but that doesnt mean it's happening.

[Zadkiel]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

If you are talking about from the factory, then why speak of compression? You mentioned high compression. If they were going to make a factory F/I BRZ/FR-S then they would lower the compression naturally. So, when you spoke of the high compression and how boost would be require a lot of motor work...I naturally thought you were talking about aftermarket. Cause a OEM would not make a high compression + boosted car. Not this day and age.

I was stating a fact, not trying to imply anything.

[eikond]

Can we have a mod change the title of this thread.. it's far from true at this point.

[WRXGuy1]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

A factory STI version would probably gain weight...you guys do know the (Impreza) STI weighs more than the WRX?

Bigger spoiler = more weight

[Zadkiel]

Originally Posted by WRXGuy1

Bigger spoiler = more weight

But it would add like.......50hp!!!!!!!!!!!!