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Kenno · 06-22-2012, 02:26 AM

Hi all,

I have a situation which has come to light recently regarding the purchase of my Toyota 86 GTS.

I was originally going to trade-in my 2005 Integra Type-S to clear the loan from that and hopefully get some equity from it which could be put into my 86 finance.

However, my dealer here in Brisbane said the Integra was worth $9,000. Yes, you heard right, $9000 for a good condition 78.5k kilometre 2005 Type-S. I thought this sounded rather low, so I jumped on carsales.com when I got home to have a look at the going prices. My Integra should be fetching between $16.5k - 25k according to carsales. It is insured through AAMI with a current agreed replacement price of just over $24,000.

So I rang my dealer up today to let them know I won't be trading-in my Integra and will instead sell it privately to get around TWICE what they offered me.

I was told that the car had been signed over to them and the trade-in was part of the deal. In short, I cannot sell it privately now. I do not understand this. The trade-in has NO effect on the finances as the amount owing and what they were going to offer, cancel each other out. It's not like I am relying on this trade-in to finance the 86. Hell, I could pay for the 86 in cold-hard cash if I had to.

I feel like I am being right-royally arse-raped. I admit it's probably my own fault for signing everything first. But is this right? Can they do this? I honestly have no idea.

I would like to point out though, that this is the only sour point of my whole experience with my dealer. They have otherwise been nothing but helpful and friendly to me and I would still recommend them to anyone looking to buy an 86 (well maybe so long as you aren't trading in a car, hehe). I just do not want this to ruin this enjoyable experience.

Nardi330 · 06-22-2012, 02:33 AM

do you have any special condition on your contract that allow you to get out?

usually they wouldn't care if you just pay them the cash instead of the trade in but they are not exactly wrong to say that the Honda is part of the deal for this contract and the consideration is your Honda + balance.

i believe they have really taken advantage of you but this is the terms on the contract and you agreed and signed it.

there is no cooling off period for new car sales so this isn't looking good.

ask them what happen if you damaged the car before delivery? will they take the $9k or want the car still?

sticky · 06-22-2012, 02:34 AM

Wow they screwed you over big time!

Did you not agree on the trade price prior to signing the contract? I'm guessing no? If a price wasn't agreed upon then I don't think you can form a binding contract - it just gives the dealer too much power to charge what ever he wants. Go over your contract and make sure it doesn't mention the price.

This might be of some help:
http://www.fairtrading.qld.gov.au/motor-industry.htm

m0nty · 06-22-2012, 02:36 AM

They can if you signed the order with the trade attached. It sounds like they undernetted you hard. Undernetting is offering a value lower than what they have to put more money in the deal. If it were the real wholesale value they offered you they wouldn't be out of pocket. I suggest you speak to the manager and try to come to some kind of agreement. But at the end of the day always think before signing.

Nardi330 · 06-22-2012, 02:40 AM

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=258

this is a copy of his contract from another thread.....

sticky, OP is from Brisbane.

primetime · 06-22-2012, 02:46 AM

This is what happens when the dealer plays hardball with trade-ins. Unfortunately, before you sign the contract you should have a figure in your mind about what your car's worth privately then work down from there which would be the dealer trade-in - which is always quite a fair bit less than private sales of course (but not so much as in your case now).

Unless you have an additional clause that allows you to sell the car privately before delivery - it's a bit hard to get out.

My previous Honda dealer was good enough to put a clause that should I manage to sell my car privately before delivery then the trade-in will be ignored and I'll just pay the balance owing before trade-in (of course offset with more money that could be netted from the private sale).

sticky · 06-22-2012, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nardi330

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=258

this is a copy of his contract from another thread.....

sticky, OP is from Brisbane.

Woops my bad - changed it to the QLD fair trading site.

So I guess he already agreed on the price. Apart from other conditions you have on the contract (ie. not happy with test drive etc) they've got you by the balls. You really should of checked carsales before walking in there.

GC GTS Aero Kit · 06-22-2012, 02:47 AM

Its pretty simple here you didn't check what your car is worth and you signed a contract to form your trade as part settlement for the new vehicle. The price was agreed upon.... Unfortunately for you, the dealer have under traded you which means there is profit for them in the trade of your vehicle and removing it loses them money which they won't do. You have to remember people Profit is not a dirty word that is what a car dealer does to provide you with nice facilities and test drivable cars, servicing, parts etc
I would think there is not a lot you can do other than chalk it up to experience or just not buy the new car if you have a buyer to make you more money.

Remember that what Carsales.com.au have advertised is never what people get people always discount and the Wholesale value of a 2005 Honda Integra Type S is about $10-11k

Nardi330 · 06-22-2012, 02:49 AM

yeah i really hope there is some clause on the special condition section so he can pull out. (the pic of the contract was cut short)

Nardi330 · 06-22-2012, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GC GTS Aero Kit

the Wholesale value of a 2005 Honda Integra Type S is about $10-11k

wow that's pretty low.

what is the wholesale value of a 2008 VW Golf GTI DSG? (just wondering, sorry for OT).

Kenno · 06-22-2012, 02:51 AM

Thanks for the info guys

Looks like I really didn't prepare myself as much as I should have, guess I was caught up in the excitement. Oh well, let's put it down to a learning experience then.

I just had one thought. What if the car was to be 'stolen' or something else were to happen to it that would cause AAMI to pay the agreed value out to me. Would the money go to me or straight to Toyota?

sticky · 06-22-2012, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenno

I just had one thought. What if the car was to be 'stolen' or something else were to happen to it that would cause AAMI to pay the agreed value out to me. Would the money go to me or straight to Toyota?

Well if the car was still in your possession then the money should come to you - it's only when you hand over your keys that they get ownership.

And please don't commit insurance fraud - it's not worth it - especially since you've just discussed this on a public forum.

BTW I'm guessing you put down a deposit - have you thought about foregoing that and signing up with another dealer and selling your car at higher price. Isn't that a more profitable option? I'm sure the dealer would be happy to keep $1,000 for doing nothing.

Cruiser · 06-22-2012, 02:58 AM

Do you have a cooling off period in which you can rescind the contract?

Also this might help

Unfair contract terms

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.../itemId/930016

m0nty · 06-22-2012, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cruiser

Do you have a cooling off period in which you can rescind the contract?

Also this might help

Unfair contract terms

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.../itemId/930016

There's only cooling off on finance, not purchases.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Cruiser · 06-22-2012, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m0nty

There's only cooling off on finance, not purchases.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Ahh ok. I Didnt know that. thx for that info.

stevo_12v · 06-22-2012, 03:05 AM

Sounds like you didn't do your home work and that the dealers a crook. Hopefully you put down 'subject to test drive' in your clause so at least you can exit out of this.

Kenno · 06-22-2012, 03:10 AM

Unfortunately, I took the car for a test drive on Tuesday afternoon before doing this paperwork, doh!

Just looked at my contract, on the back where the Terms And Conditions are, I have not signed it. Does this make any difference?

stevo_12v · 06-22-2012, 03:16 AM

Yeah, makes all the difference. Usually they have T&C so the buyer has a way to 'exit' the contract if they are not happy with the deal. Standard ones are subject to pricing, subject to test drive, subject to finance. You could put other 'subject to' clauses if you wanted to.. "Subject to girlfriends approval" lol

Nardi330 · 06-22-2012, 03:25 AM

Not subject to finance unless u told them upfront that u are getting finance.

If u already told them u don't need finance then this clause no longer applies.

catcha · 06-22-2012, 03:26 AM

got yourself in a bit of a pickle, should not have signed it. did you put subject to finance to a specfic lender.

this is going to be an expensive lesson for you. who are you financing the car with ? your only way to get out is if you can't get finance. or talk to the manger again and plea.

GC GTS Aero Kit · 06-22-2012, 03:27 AM

I think if you sold your trade privately the worst thing that could happen would be they won't sell you the new car.....What deposit did you leave? I would be inclined to think it wouldn't be refunded either or it would be very slow in being returned to you.

On another point are you prepared to wait for another vehicle if they didn't let you keep your car....seeing as late this year/early next year for a Manual GTS in QLD is the norm would you be prepared to wait

Nardi330 · 06-22-2012, 03:30 AM

Kenno, do u have anything in the special condition section?

If u sell your car privately, u have breach the contract and subject to the default clause and they can recover from u up to 10% of their lost.

U know what, u seems to have the same standard contract as me so I'll have a look at the T&C after dinner.

06-22-2012, 02:26 AM	#1
Kenno Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Drives: Toyota 86 GTS 6M Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 103 Thanks: 27 Thanked 65 Times in 32 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Where do I stand legally? Hi all, I have a situation which has come to light recently regarding the purchase of my Toyota 86 GTS. I was originally going to trade-in my 2005 Integra Type-S to clear the loan from that and hopefully get some equity from it which could be put into my 86 finance. However, my dealer here in Brisbane said the Integra was worth $9,000. Yes, you heard right, $9000 for a good condition 78.5k kilometre 2005 Type-S. I thought this sounded rather low, so I jumped on carsales.com when I got home to have a look at the going prices. My Integra should be fetching between $16.5k - 25k according to carsales. It is insured through AAMI with a current agreed replacement price of just over $24,000. So I rang my dealer up today to let them know I won't be trading-in my Integra and will instead sell it privately to get around TWICE what they offered me. I was told that the car had been signed over to them and the trade-in was part of the deal. In short, I cannot sell it privately now. I do not understand this. The trade-in has NO effect on the finances as the amount owing and what they were going to offer, cancel each other out. It's not like I am relying on this trade-in to finance the 86. Hell, I could pay for the 86 in cold-hard cash if I had to. I feel like I am being right-royally arse-raped. I admit it's probably my own fault for signing everything first. But is this right? Can they do this? I honestly have no idea. I would like to point out though, that this is the only sour point of my whole experience with my dealer. They have otherwise been nothing but helpful and friendly to me and I would still recommend them to anyone looking to buy an 86 (well maybe so long as you aren't trading in a car, hehe). I just do not want this to ruin this enjoyable experience.

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06-22-2012, 02:33 AM	#2
Nardi330 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Drives: 86 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 2,057 Thanks: 255 Thanked 325 Times in 229 Posts Mentioned: 8 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	do you have any special condition on your contract that allow you to get out? usually they wouldn't care if you just pay them the cash instead of the trade in but they are not exactly wrong to say that the Honda is part of the deal for this contract and the consideration is your Honda + balance. i believe they have really taken advantage of you but this is the terms on the contract and you agreed and signed it. there is no cooling off period for new car sales so this isn't looking good. ask them what happen if you damaged the car before delivery? will they take the $9k or want the car still?

06-22-2012, 02:34 AM	#3
sticky Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Drives: 86 GTS 6AT Location: Sydney Posts: 293 Thanks: 122 Thanked 68 Times in 46 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Wow they screwed you over big time! Did you not agree on the trade price prior to signing the contract? I'm guessing no? If a price wasn't agreed upon then I don't think you can form a binding contract - it just gives the dealer too much power to charge what ever he wants. Go over your contract and make sure it doesn't mention the price. This might be of some help: http://www.fairtrading.qld.gov.au/motor-industry.htm

06-22-2012, 02:40 AM	#5
Nardi330 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Drives: 86 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 2,057 Thanks: 255 Thanked 325 Times in 229 Posts Mentioned: 8 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=258 this is a copy of his contract from another thread..... sticky, OP is from Brisbane.

06-22-2012, 02:46 AM	#6
primetime Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Drives: Shiro White 370Z Location: Perth Posts: 99 Thanks: 34 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	This is what happens when the dealer plays hardball with trade-ins. Unfortunately, before you sign the contract you should have a figure in your mind about what your car's worth privately then work down from there which would be the dealer trade-in - which is always quite a fair bit less than private sales of course (but not so much as in your case now). Unless you have an additional clause that allows you to sell the car privately before delivery - it's a bit hard to get out. My previous Honda dealer was good enough to put a clause that should I manage to sell my car privately before delivery then the trade-in will be ignored and I'll just pay the balance owing before trade-in (of course offset with more money that could be netted from the private sale).

06-22-2012, 02:47 AM	#8
GC GTS Aero Kit Australian and Proud !!!! Join Date: Jun 2012 Drives: 2012 Toyota 86 GTS Aero Kit Location: Gold Coast / Brisbane Posts: 543 Thanks: 70 Thanked 126 Times in 97 Posts Mentioned: 4 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Its pretty simple here you didn't check what your car is worth and you signed a contract to form your trade as part settlement for the new vehicle. The price was agreed upon.... Unfortunately for you, the dealer have under traded you which means there is profit for them in the trade of your vehicle and removing it loses them money which they won't do. You have to remember people Profit is not a dirty word that is what a car dealer does to provide you with nice facilities and test drivable cars, servicing, parts etc I would think there is not a lot you can do other than chalk it up to experience or just not buy the new car if you have a buyer to make you more money. Remember that what Carsales.com.au have advertised is never what people get people always discount and the Wholesale value of a 2005 Honda Integra Type S is about $10-11k

06-22-2012, 02:49 AM	#9
Nardi330 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Drives: 86 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 2,057 Thanks: 255 Thanked 325 Times in 229 Posts Mentioned: 8 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	yeah i really hope there is some clause on the special condition section so he can pull out. (the pic of the contract was cut short)

06-22-2012, 02:51 AM	#11
Kenno Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Drives: Toyota 86 GTS 6M Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 103 Thanks: 27 Thanked 65 Times in 32 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Thanks for the info guys Looks like I really didn't prepare myself as much as I should have, guess I was caught up in the excitement. Oh well, let's put it down to a learning experience then. I just had one thought. What if the car was to be 'stolen' or something else were to happen to it that would cause AAMI to pay the agreed value out to me. Would the money go to me or straight to Toyota?

06-22-2012, 02:58 AM	#13
Cruiser Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Drives: Toyota LandCruiser Location: Canberra Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Do you have a cooling off period in which you can rescind the contract? Also this might help Unfair contract terms http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.../itemId/930016

06-22-2012, 03:05 AM	#16
stevo_12v Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Drives: Mazda MX-6 Turbo, Toyota GTS86 37J Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 587 Thanks: 243 Thanked 218 Times in 143 Posts Mentioned: 15 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Sounds like you didn't do your home work and that the dealers a crook. Hopefully you put down 'subject to test drive' in your clause so at least you can exit out of this.

06-22-2012, 03:10 AM	#17
Kenno Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Drives: Toyota 86 GTS 6M Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 103 Thanks: 27 Thanked 65 Times in 32 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Unfortunately, I took the car for a test drive on Tuesday afternoon before doing this paperwork, doh! Just looked at my contract, on the back where the Terms And Conditions are, I have not signed it. Does this make any difference?

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06-22-2012, 03:16 AM	#18
stevo_12v Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Drives: Mazda MX-6 Turbo, Toyota GTS86 37J Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 587 Thanks: 243 Thanked 218 Times in 143 Posts Mentioned: 15 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Yeah, makes all the difference. Usually they have T&C so the buyer has a way to 'exit' the contract if they are not happy with the deal. Standard ones are subject to pricing, subject to test drive, subject to finance. You could put other 'subject to' clauses if you wanted to.. "Subject to girlfriends approval" lol

06-22-2012, 03:25 AM	#19
Nardi330 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Drives: 86 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 2,057 Thanks: 255 Thanked 325 Times in 229 Posts Mentioned: 8 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	Not subject to finance unless u told them upfront that u are getting finance. If u already told them u don't need finance then this clause no longer applies.

06-22-2012, 03:26 AM	#20
catcha Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Drives: Toyota 86 Location: Perth,WA Posts: 54 Thanks: 1 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	got yourself in a bit of a pickle, should not have signed it. did you put subject to finance to a specfic lender. this is going to be an expensive lesson for you. who are you financing the car with ? your only way to get out is if you can't get finance. or talk to the manger again and plea.

06-22-2012, 03:27 AM	#21
GC GTS Aero Kit Australian and Proud !!!! Join Date: Jun 2012 Drives: 2012 Toyota 86 GTS Aero Kit Location: Gold Coast / Brisbane Posts: 543 Thanks: 70 Thanked 126 Times in 97 Posts Mentioned: 4 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I think if you sold your trade privately the worst thing that could happen would be they won't sell you the new car.....What deposit did you leave? I would be inclined to think it wouldn't be refunded either or it would be very slow in being returned to you. On another point are you prepared to wait for another vehicle if they didn't let you keep your car....seeing as late this year/early next year for a Manual GTS in QLD is the norm would you be prepared to wait

06-22-2012, 03:30 AM	#22
Nardi330 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Drives: 86 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 2,057 Thanks: 255 Thanked 325 Times in 229 Posts Mentioned: 8 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	Kenno, do u have anything in the special condition section? If u sell your car privately, u have breach the contract and subject to the default clause and they can recover from u up to 10% of their lost. U know what, u seems to have the same standard contract as me so I'll have a look at the T&C after dinner.