FR-S or MS3?

[Tbomb 25]

I must say this is trully apples to oranges cars you have chosen here....but very very good 1's as well. Personally for a sporting car i would never get a AT,but it does seem like the FRS/BRZ have the very best auto tranny in this pricerange.Perhaps if its not 1 of these 2 you should check out the Hyundai Veloster Turbo its a FWD hatch thats supposed to have a very good auto tranny to. But for pure driving pleasure other than the Miata your not gonna get any better than the FRS/BRZ maybe the mustang but its much bigger and heavier though Its extremely hard to beat a well designed RWD car for fun, very very few FWD drive cars can even get close to a car like the lightweight well balanced FRS/BRZ drives even very few RWD cars can, even some that many 1000's more.

[dori.]

Originally Posted by flawedchemical

It has an AMAZING transmission. One reason I fell in love immediately. Nowhere near the power of the Mazda but my worst tank of gas so far was 31mpg and that was with quite a bit of flogging it, so the tradeoff was kinda worth it. Overall I don't think it'll be like Scion's of old.

Let me know if you have any more specific questions haha.

probably since its a Subaru

[cyphersk8]

Just test drove the AT frs and I'll be honest, it lacked a bit of oomph for me. The interior seemed very flat for a modern car. It was ergonomic, but lacked some necessary features. I suppose for a track car that wouldn't matter though! I was hoping for a little more in terms of output as well. Don't get me wrong, the car was an absolute blast to drive... Quick, nimble, and fun - but it didnt have much pick up once it's already at freeway speeds. It could be the auto, maybe I should wait and drive an MT too.

Loved the look, loved the feel of the car, but something just didn't live up to the hype I'm a bit sad haha. I'll never track it or mod it, so may e it's just not for me.

Great community though - so ill do what any responsible person should do and I'll sleep on it!

[thill]

I would also drive the new Ford Focus ST. More power, and supposedly strong handling.

I loved the MS3 when I test drove one, but I was not sold on the exterior styling and did not love the interior (felt cheap, steering wheel was super busy with all the buttons).

[cyphersk8]

I'll check out the ST but I don't really like the exterior of the new focus. Thanks for the tip though. I need to find a MT frs and drive tht. I'm sure I'll love it way more.

[ubersoph]

Did you check out a DSG GTI yet? DSG is better than any traditional AT trans...

[ZmZMWagon]

The MS3 is a great all around car. Beast on the Freeway, but like everyone else has already said you are comparing two cars with different purposes. Are you going to be stuck in traffic often?

[cyphersk8]

Originally Posted by ZmZMWagon

The MS3 is a great all around car. Beast on the Freeway, but like everyone else has already said you are comparing two cars with different purposes. Are you going to be stuck in traffic often?

Everyday of my life. I commute 44 miles each way in LA traffic. Now that I'm sitting at work and reading the forums, I definitely need a slightly bigger car to accommodate all the things I enjoy doing (besides driving!)

[ZmZMWagon]

Originally Posted by cyphersk8

Everyday of my life. I commute 44 miles each way in LA traffic. Now that I'm sitting at work and reading the forums, I definitely need a slightly bigger car to accommodate all the things I enjoy doing (besides driving!)

I had an MS3 myself that I enjoyed driving. But being stuck in 4 hours of traffic on the 10 and 60 FWYS was no fun. I wanted to go the same route you were thinking FRS/BRZ. But the truth is it would have been a waste of the cars potential.......so I ended up with a Golf TDI. Like someone else suggested look into the GTI and DSG, it's a great tranny.

[was385]

For me, the MS3 was a case study in why you don't put that much power in a FWD setup. The torque steer is impressive to say the least.

[thill]

Originally Posted by was385

For me, the MS3 was a case study in why you don't put that much power in a FWD setup. The torque steer is impressive to say the least.

It (torque steer) is there, but very controllable especially for normal spirited driving. The car does have traction and stability control so will help unless you are just being stupid and want to defy the laws of physics.

Honestly, I was expecting the torque steer (this was a 2012) to be much worse based on some of the comments I read.

The upside is that you have loads or torque at low RPMs, and torque is pretty fun

The MS3 makes 280 fr-lbs of torque at 3K rpm.. Will definitely put you in your seat

I had a blast driving this car and nearly bought it....

[cyphersk8]

Originally Posted by thill

It (torque steer) is there, but very controllable especially for normal spirited driving. The car does have traction and stability control so will help unless you are just being stupid and want to defy the laws of physics.

Honestly, I was expecting the torque steer (this was a 2012) to be much worse based on some of the comments I read.

The upside is that you have loads or torque at low RPMs, and torque is pretty fun

The MS3 makes 280 fr-lbs of torque at 3K rpm.. Will definitely put you in your seat

I had a blast driving this car and nearly bought it....

Yeah I can deal with the torque steer, having a FwD all my life I've learned to deal with it. I'm still open to an FR-S, but I need to drive a manual one. I'm also gonna look into a genesis coupe and now an rx8.

I got to test drive my friends 05 rx8 and I was surprised how much I liked the car. I can get over the exterior, since it's not super sexy to me like the frs, but the interior was much nicer and I could actually feel the engine. It felt great and getting a newer one for under $20k would mean I could have fun with it for a few years before its time to settle down into a nice dad van :P

[Tbomb 25]

Originally Posted by thill

I would also drive the new Ford Focus ST. More power, and supposedly strong handling.

I loved the MS3 when I test drove one, but I was not sold on the exterior styling and did not love the interior (felt cheap, steering wheel was super busy with all the buttons).

As far as i know its not coming with a auto...the Veloster Turbo is coming with a auto...he may wanna check it out...

[cyphersk8]

I think I've decided auto isn't for me. Even with all the traffic I sitin, the auto today just killed it for me. After driving a friends rx8 during lunch, I determined I am definitely a MT guy lol. Veloster turbo seems interesting...

[Wreakin]

Make a pro's and con's list.

[Homeslice]

Sounds like you have a lot to think about/test drive. If you can wait it out a bit, you have some new cars that will be great options for what you are looking for. The sonic turbo is coming out, as well as the Focus ST (possibly the fiesta st) veloster turbo, and even the dodge dart R/T should make the commute fun (although not as sexy). Check out the 4th gen eclipse too (i love mine!)

The new body style genesis are nice as well and them being rwd with v6 option or turbo is nice. Even the forte koup is a cool sporty looking car

This isn't exactly a coupe, but the suzuki kizashi is a pretty nice car that not many people know about (awd option) http://www.suzukiauto.com/kizashi/

just throwing some more options out there to check out

[cyphersk8]

Originally Posted by Homeslice

Sounds like you have a lot to think about/test drive. If you can wait it out a bit, you have some new cars that will be great options for what you are looking for. The sonic turbo is coming out, as well as the Focus ST (possibly the fiesta st) veloster turbo, and even the dodge dart R/T should make the commute fun (although not as sexy). Check out the 4th gen eclipse too (i love mine!)

The new body style genesis are nice as well and them being rwd with v6 option or turbo is nice. Even the forte koup is a cool sporty looking car

This isn't exactly a coupe, but the suzuki kizashi is a pretty nice car that not many people know about (awd option) http://www.suzukiauto.com/kizashi/

just throwing some more options out there to check out

Yeah Im not in a big hurry. I really want to try out a manual FRS still, since I absolutely love the exterior of the car. I can deal with the flat interior if the manual lives up.

Those others you mentioned are on my watch list! I've definitely made a pros and cons list - just waiting it out and going to get what I absolutely want. This is a great community though - so I want to stick around here . Thanks for the tip!

[thill]

Originally Posted by cyphersk8

Yeah Im not in a big hurry. I really want to try out a manual FRS still, since I absolutely love the exterior of the car. I can deal with the flat interior if the manual lives up.

Those others you mentioned are on my watch list! I've definitely made a pros and cons list - just waiting it out and going to get what I absolutely want. This is a great community though - so I want to stick around here . Thanks for the tip!

You are definitely doing it right. This way you won't have regrets and you will know the right car when you drive it. I went through this same process you did and drove a pile of cars over the course of 7 days. Several cars I needed to go back and drive again, back to back. One dealer let me take a car home for 24 hours because I was still on the fence and that pretty much sealed the deal as I was able to drive in like I would on my normal daily routine and it really helped seal the deal.

[tinnyms3]

I currently own the 1st gen MS3 with deposit on a BRZ, and it is one of my favorite cars I've owned(WRX, M Coupe, RX7, SVT Focus, 350Z, GTI). For fwd it's very capable as proven by many owners on the track.

Like the frs/brz, thing that I really like about MS3 is the visceral feedback from steering, chassis, brakes, clutch/trans etc that makes you really feel connected to the car and give you sense of great control and confidence.

If you don't mind the smugly styling, MS3 is a good option. I have a feeling that FRS/BRZ will not have enough power to satisfy me, so likely pass and wait for trd/sti version.

[Nazarite]

Originally Posted by flawedchemical

I also just went from a liquid silver MS3 to the Argento FR-S haha...The mazda like stated above is a beast in the midrange and a roll on monster. It also handles quite well and responds very well to minimal mods. I autocrossed mine for 2 seasons and was always at the top of my class locally against evo's and sti's. The torque steer is manageable and mine became nearly nonexistent when I had an alignment done and took all the retarded toe out of the equation. Made the car MUCH better. It does ride rougher than the FR-S though. And is much louder. MS3 had better brakes I think...at least touchier initially and a little more feel in the early part of the pedal. Both transition quickly from side to side. Of course the aftermarket is huge for the 3 compared to the FR-S but I'm sure that will change quickly.

This guy nailed it, MS3 pretty much pushes the performance envelope as far as it can go for a fwd I believe. Super stealth too since no one expects it to do quite what it can.

Originally Posted by FT86Katsu

Fr-s. I don't car what kind of hp the ms3 has, its so ugly..

Ugly? Now you're just hurting my feelings...

Originally Posted by flawedchemical

It was good...never had any issues over 25k miles and I drove the piss out of it. Over 50 drag strip passes and 40 autocross passes. The stock tires wear out at 20k miles no matter what, so be prepared. I had a persistent plastic rattle from the gauge pod, but that was probably more from my motor mount than a build issue.

He's right, the ms3 has solid build quality, and can have pretty nice fit and finish when optioned correctly. Like flawedchemical, my only rattles are a result of solid transmission and rear motor mounts...battle tank mode engaged.

Originally Posted by tinnyms3

Like the frs/brz, thing that I really like about MS3 is the visceral feedback from steering, chassis, brakes, clutch/trans etc that makes you really feel connected to the car and give you sense of great control and confidence.

If you don't mind the smugly styling, MS3 is a good option. I have a feeling that FRS/BRZ will not have enough power to satisfy me, so likely pass and wait for trd/sti version.

@tinny, me too man, hoping to get over that powerlust though so I can fully enjoy me a brz as well.

OP, both do what they do well, comes down to what you can live with for, like you said, 5 years. If you really care about AT that much, then get the BRZ man, especially if you don't plan to mod. On the other hand, +60+ hp and +80 tq gains from bolt ons alone is prettttttty fun...

[tinnyms3]

Originally Posted by Nazarite

Ugly? Now you're just hurting my feelings...

Looking good bro, I think he's refering to 2nd gen, you know gen1 is waaay better than gen2.

[Nazarite]

Originally Posted by tinnyms3

Looking good bro, I think he's refering to 2nd gen, you know gen1 is waaay better than gen2.

I thought he just might be...and thanks man. But enough of our nonsense...

















ms3 fo lyfe