Idle issue?

[Thunderchicken]

Originally Posted by WithNolock

Sorry for the crappy iPhone vid but here's what I'm seeing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWmNSkQWimI&sns=em

To me it looks normal, but you only let it possibly do it once then you hit the gas which to me doesn't make any sense. Let the car try to stall on it's own cause to me it's just like my '08 STi.

If it's a concern take it to the dealership, but make sure that it does it all the time and is repeatable or you will just get the answer "No Fault Found".

If this is your 1st tank fill up at your favorite station with 91/93 at 1/3 tank left who know what the dealership put it.

[WithNolock]

Originally Posted by Thunderchicken

To me it looks normal, but you only let it possibly do it once then you hit the gas which to me doesn't make any sense. Let the car try to stall on it's own cause to me it's just like my '08 STi.

If it's a concern take it to the dealership, but make sure that it does it all the time and is repeatable or you will just get the answer "No Fault Found".

If this is your 1st tank fill up at your favorite station with 91/93 at 1/3 tank left who know what the dealership put it.

I didnt hit the gas right after the rpm's dropped. That was the engine recovering itself. Couple seconds after that the light turned green. This doesn't happen every time but it's fairly consistent. I have over 700 miles so I've been through a couple tanks of gas.

[ahausheer]

Originally Posted by WithNolock

I didnt hit the gas right after the rpm's dropped. That was the engine recovering itself. Couple seconds after that the light turned green. This doesn't happen every time but it's fairly consistent. I have over 700 miles so I've been through a couple tanks of gas.

If the rpms are recovering that high there is something seriously wrong. Almost like an intermittent vacuum leak or faulty idle control valve or worse. At idle the tack should not be jumping that much. In my opinion something is wrong and you should take it in and show the dealer your video.

[Thunderchicken]

Originally Posted by WithNolock

I didnt hit the gas right after the rpm's dropped. That was the engine recovering itself. Couple seconds after that the light turned green. This doesn't happen every time but it's fairly consistent. I have over 700 miles so I've been through a couple tanks of gas.

unfortunately I can't see what you are seeing. However the best thing to do is when you get your oil changed or if the concern is that great head to the dealership and drive the adviser or tech around and show him what you are seeing and let him tell you if it's normal or an issue.

[Username]

Do we know how many documented cases there are of this issue (on the forum or otherwise)?

I have a deposit down on an FRS that should be here any day now and this issue has me worried. People who are planning on buying soon, is this a deal breaker for you? Enough to wait for the kinks to be worked out?

EDIT: I know that this issue will be covered by warranty, but it is my experience that a newer engine is never really the same once it has been cracked open. Not to mention some reservations I have about some dealership's service departments.

[07stealth350z]

Originally Posted by civicdrivr

When my engine is cold, it idles at ~1500rpms for a few minutes. Not sure if thats normal or not though. All of my previous cars would idle at 1k while cold then drop down to 750-800rpms.

Isn't that a lil low to begin with for a high compression engine? My Z idles at around 2000rpms & sometimes a little higher on a cold start, and I know that the FR-S/BRZ is a much higher compression engine than that of the VQ35HR.

[yayforaddison]

Mine was dropping a little further down then that video at its worst (sometimes under 400rpm), then bouncing up to 1,200 at times, then back to idle (600-650ish). I haven't seen it for about 5 days tho. I called the number and reported it, but have been way to busy to take my car in. I'm at roughly 350 miles now, my second tank, and have just began letting my RPM go to 5,000 about 3 times since 300 miles (I am doing my break-in a little different, by gradually letting my rpms increase every few hundred miles).

I havent noticed this idle issue since my new tank of gas (93 oct), or with my rpm increase. May just be a coincidence tho.

The only reason I have done this slow rev increase, is partially because of how bad my idle issue was, nor do believe in keeping it under 4k for 1,000 miles then BAM redline! Slowly increasing the RPMs may help the engine slowly build up for redline. Just my idea tho.

[Dadhawk]

"Olivia" is rock steady on idle, I've had no issue with this. 6AT.

[Jayde]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

"Olivia" is rock steady on idle, I've had no issue with this. 6AT.

Named yours Olivia huh? I named mine Emma.

I haven't experienced the idle drops during normal driving. It seems the engine revs up a bit when it's put into gear with the clutch in. Now if that damn chirp would go away...

[davisk6]

Originally Posted by Jayde

Now if that damn chirp would go away...

Not going to happen. It's part of the DI system, so unless you modify that, you'll have to deal with it.

I think there is a lot of FUD being thrown around in this thread. Both videos posted show nothing out of the ordinary. The engine is supposed to idle around 650 RPM. As for it dropping below that when putting the car into neutral while driving, that is also expected. The physics of the rotating mass of the crankshaft and the delay between the TPS sensor and ECU will allow the motor to spin down below normal idle. Once that situation is discovered by the ECU, the throttle will open and correct.

You really shouldn't be cruising to a stop from 45 - 50 mph with the clutch in anyway. Let the inertia of the car and the engine slow you down. In fact, you can slow down much faster with the car in gear instead of in neutral.

Simply put, if there is a problem with the engine at idle, it will present itself when the car is stationary. Any presumed RPM drop when driving can be attributed to a number of things, including driver technique. If you experience a CEL when stationary, that's a problem and must be addressed, but most of the evidence presented here does not indicate a wide spread issue with the vehicle.

[Stu L Tissimus]

Followup: dropped off my BRZ at the dealer again, they're gonna take a look at it for two days and send some data back to Subaru HQ and see what's up. At the very least, my case appears to be under control.

I've noticed that mine is reproducible if you drive on the highway, get off at an exit ramp, roll up to a stop sign and put it in neutral. Anecdotal, but it's happened thrice to me. (It did not occur at all during about 30 minutes of street driving yesterday.)

[eriktherod]

I feel like most people are overreacting to the way the engine works. It's a great engineering feat between Subaru and Toyota, I'm sure they've spent thousands of man-hours of development and testing. I don't think this is a production issue.

The very few, handful of people who have stalls and actual problems need to get their's looked at by the dealer, but for the rest of us it shouldn't be seen as a problem.

Stu, I have noticed that same issue as well. Seems like it's part of the ECU doing some kind of calibration or balancing act.

[Tomzilla]

Originally Posted by F1point4

That is pretty much spot on for what my car does. Except I can only produce if I'm stopping starting around 45-50mph in neutral.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but I don't believe it's advisable to throw it into neutral at this speed. (I realize this has nothing to do with the idle issue, but just looking out for a fella) Say if you needed to perform some sort of evasive maneuver while at this speed in neutral; it's going to be more difficult to do so. That and I don't know it's very friendly on the clutch to try and engage a gear starting from neutral at a higher speed.

My 2 cents, that should be taken with a pinch of salt.

[synchromesh]

I took my car(600km) in to the dealership today because I was having idle problems that noticed last week. Yesterday was at its worst. Stopped at a red light and the idle was loping between 400-1100 rpm in neutral. At below 500rpm it feels and sounds like the car is going to stall.

Today the problem went away and the mechanic told me to come back again if the problem happens again. Spoke with the sales rep and he told me he was familiar with this thread and will let me know if there is a bulletin for this problem.

[F1point4]

Originally Posted by Tomzilla

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but I don't believe it's advisable to throw it into neutral at this speed. (I realize this has nothing to do with the idle issue, but just looking out for a fella) Say if you needed to perform some sort of evasive maneuver while at this speed in neutral; it's going to be more difficult to do so. That and I don't know it's very friendly on the clutch to try and engage a gear starting from neutral at a higher speed.

My 2 cents, that should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Thank you for the feedback. Totally agree that its much more difficult for an evasive maneuver. However, I was advised to do this for gas savings by drivers who been driving manuals for decades [New manual gearbox driver here].

For reengaging a gear from neutral at speed, the same people said if I'm going 30, put it in 3rd. 40 put it in 4th, etc. I try to rev match to make it smooth. I have no idea if this is even a best practice.

[F1point4]

Took my car to the dealership today. Demanded that I be present in the car when the tech takes it for a test drive. To my surprise I ended up driving the technician and repeatedly demonstrating the issue to him. He acknowledged the existence of the noise but wasn't sure what the issue was so he got the foreman involved.

I asked this technician about the high pitch chirping and he is fairly sure it is the Direct Injection system.

After a few calls to Gulf States Toyota (I think this is a regional distributor) and California, they still weren't sure what the noise was. Gulf States said they wanted the Foreman to bring the car over to listen to it. After the foreman and I went for another drive to get synced up on issue and noise in question, I hesitantly agreed to let him bring it over there. Overall I think they will put 80+ miles on the car before I get it back

Just got an update, they had another FR-S to compare it to. In the other vehicle they got the same noise to occur, but it happened much more quietly. They said you really had to listen for the noise. In my car it was much more pronounced. Ultimately they are convinced it was something in my transmission, heard something along the lines of "harmonic balancer". They recorded video, documented the issue and sent it to engineers in California. They deemed the car safe to drive and said there isn't an impact on reliability so I'm getting the car back tomorrow. They aren't sure but they are researching the issue.

I'll continue to touch base with them and get updates. They told me if anything had to be done it'll be covered under warranty.







For anyone who wants to hear this flutter engine noise I'm hearing you can do it two ways. Get the car warmed up first. Roll up your windows. Turn off the radio. Now either

1) get the car up to around 50mph in 5th or 6th gear. When its safe, put it in neutral and brake all the way to 0 with regular pressure like you are doing a normal stop. For me, right around 20mph you'll see the RPM dip and the engine make the flutter/sputter noise.

2) Get the car up to speed, around 45mph. When its safe, put it in neutral and let the car coast and slow down on its own. The Foreman was able to repeatedly hear the sound when it passed 36-38mph.

[mark7s4]

Originally Posted by whiteout fr-s

Ok so official word from the Toyota rep is that the VVTR control valve and Cam valve are bad. Unfortunately for me and the rest of you experiencing this problem the parts won't be available until sometime next month so my car will be sitting at the dealership until then. They also advised me that any of you having this issue should not continue to drive your vehicles until taking them into the dealership.

At least we have an answer, to bad it wasn't a simple one.

I have an update.

It looks like I'm having a similar issue to above. My check engine light went off and gave the P0019 code. This code is given if the exhaust camshaft position has slipped from the threshold for 5 seconds for the bank 2 camshaft sensor. I believe it has to happen twice for the code to be given. The dealer believes that it can either be the sensor itself or the camshaft timing gear assembly. I believe it can also be the camshaft timing oil control valve like "whiteout_frs's" car. What they did was to swap camshaft position sensors on either side of the engine to see if the code would come up on the other side. Their rationale is that if it does then it's the sensor that is bad. If the code comes up on the same side then it's either the control valve or the gear assembly. They drove the car around 50 miles or so and (of course) nothing happened. So now I have the car back to drive it around until the "event" happens again.

This wasn't the experience I had in mind when I won the First 86 contest. lol

[Northside]

Originally Posted by ahausheer

. . . Almost like an intermittent vacuum leak or faulty idle control valve or worse. At idle the tack should not be jumping that much. . .

I agree. The symptoms of the idle dip, struggle not to stall and the 1000-rpm recovery described seem to indicate an intermittent vacuum leak from a dodgy idle air control valve, MAF sensor or any other air sensor it may have or leaky vacuum hose.

Had the same symptoms with the idle of my older car. Changed the idle air control valve. Solved the problem.

[csaba]

Originally Posted by mark7s4

I have an update.

It looks like I'm having a similar issue to above. My check engine light went off and gave the P0019 code. This code is given if the exhaust camshaft position has slipped from the threshold for 5 seconds for the bank 2 camshaft sensor. I believe it has to happen twice for the code to be given. The dealer believes that it can either be the sensor itself or the camshaft timing gear assembly. I believe it can also be the camshaft timing oil control valve like "whiteout_frs's" car. What they did was to swap camshaft position sensors on either side of the engine to see if the code would come up on the other side. Their rationale is that if it does then it's the sensor that is bad. If the code comes up on the same side then it's either the control valve or the gear assembly. They drove the car around 50 miles or so and (of course) nothing happened. So now I have the car back to drive it around until the "event" happens again.

This wasn't e experience I had in mind when I won the First 86 contest. lol

Sorry to hear that I really hope they find the problem really soon !!

[davisk6]

Originally Posted by F1point4

Thank you for the feedback. Totally agree that its much more difficult for an evasive maneuver. However, I was advised to do this for gas savings by drivers who been driving manuals for decades [New manual gearbox driver here].

This is actually incorrect. When in gear, the engine will go into vacuum, using zero fuel, as the rotating mass of the transmission keeps the crank moving. When in neutral, the car is at idle, therefore, the throttle must open and fuel is used to keep the car from stalling.

http://www.ehow.com/facts_7594902_co...-save-gas.html

[Toy86]

Originally Posted by davisk6

This is actually incorrect. When in gear, the engine will go into vacuum, using zero fuel, as the rotating mass of the transmission keeps the crank moving. When in neutral, the car is at idle, therefore, the throttle must open and fuel is used to keep the car from stalling.

http://www.ehow.com/facts_7594902_co...-save-gas.html

CORRECT!

[F1point4]

Thanks to both of y'all for clearing that up. Much appreciated.