how bad is the clutch?

[TOMIMOTO]

I guess none of you guys have driven new gen WRX's/STi's?

Subaru's clutches are super light and long now.

[OrbitalEllipses]

The new WRX (specifically widebody) had a stiff fucking clutch, from what I heard.

[EsoBOFH]

naa.. it ain't bad at all. Light, yes, long, yes.. both adjustable issues. I'm quite used to it and only a week in.

[oneday]

Originally Posted by luxmn

bmw cars in general have heavy clutch/gas pedal/steering, my guess is to avoid accidental push/steer because (no offense taken please) their people are generally big, tall and heavy.

japanese cars are the exact opposite, they are made generally for pp like me 5'4" 130lbs, if I have to shift my weight to engage the clutch, it's too heavy for my grandma. In Asia, manual is 70% of the cars on the road not like the US so making the clutch light imho is a decision based upon their user research.

Huh? My Miata, Integra, 240SX, and my wife's MR2 and Paseo (ugh, don't ask), all had fairly heavy clutches (heavier than my tC), so I don't know what you are talking about or where you are getting your "Asian people are small and week and can't operate a heavy clutch" argument comes from. Besides, if that were the case, the manufacturer could spec a different clutch/pressure plate for the DM of the car...a light one for JDM, a mamoth one for the gigantic EDM drivers, and somewhere in between for us USDMers.

[luxmn]

Originally Posted by oneday

Huh? My Miata, Integra, 240SX, and my wife's MR2 and Paseo (ugh, don't ask), all had fairly heavy clutches (heavier than my tC), so I don't know what you are talking about or where you are getting your "Asian people are small and week and can't operate a heavy clutch" argument comes from. Besides, if that were the case, the manufacturer could spec a different clutch/pressure plate for the DM of the car...a light one for JDM, a mamoth one for the gigantic EDM drivers, and somewhere in between for us USDMers.

Side note: No need to put words in my mouth, I stated that europeans generally have taller, heavier build than Asian, that doesn't imply Asian being weak and can't operate a clutch. If you want to have internet argument find someone else.

Relevant discussion: before the FRS I have zero experience with manual, 0, and I don't pretend like I do. After the FRS, I have driven Celica, BMW 3 series and an old miata mx3 all stock clutch. From my minimal experience, the 3 series is the heaviest from clutch to gas to steering. My point? I'm GUESSING they design it for their "average driver" and on average asian is smaller than european. Should they make multiple versions based on market? They could but this is not as critical as driver on the left or the right side so I'm GUESSING they leave it to the driver to getting used to.

[Shagaliscious]

I haven't driven one yet, but in my Civic Si the clutch is light as a feather. First time I test drove it I didn't think the clutch was there. It didn't take long at all to get used to. I would say after about a couple days I forgot how hard the clutch was in my previous car. After reading this, I think I will like the clutch in the FR-S.

[oneday]

I apologize, I am a little rambunctious today.

Originally Posted by luxmn

Side note: No need to put words in my mouth, I stated that europeans generally have taller, heavier build than Asian, that doesn't imply Asian being weak and can't operate a clutch. If you want to have internet arguement find someone else.

The internet is filled with non-sense (especially forums) and ill-conceived arguments based on fictional "facts" I was just trying to determine where you were getting your facts to base your assumption on. I didn't put any words in your mouth, I simply inferred this:

Originally Posted by oneday

"Asian people are small and week and can't operate a heavy clutch"

from this statement you made:

Originally Posted by luxmn

japanese cars are ... made generally for pp like me 5'4" 130lbs, if I have to shift my weight to engage the clutch, it's too heavy for my grandma.

Originally Posted by luxmn

Relevant discussion: before the FRS I have zero experience with manual, 0, and I don't pretend like I do. After the FRS, I have driven Celica, BMW 3 series and an old miata mx3 all stock clutch. From my minimal experience, the 3 series is the heaviest from clutch to gas to steering. My point? I'm GUESSING they design it for their "average driver" and on average asian is smaller than european. Should they make multiple versions based on market? They could but this is not as critical as driver on the left or the right side so I'm GUESSING they leave it to the driver to getting used to.

In conclusion, your hypothesis is based on your vast experience over the last month and the wide cross section of four cars? You are damn near an expert in the field of clutch pedal force around the world!

Objection: Augmentative!
Sustained.

Just don't make a sweeping statement when you have [next to] zero data to support it.

[Boosted2.0]

I have been driving standards for 20 years. The clutch feels great to me and I have no issues modulating it. A light clutch pedal is NOT a bad thing on a long stop and go commute.

[Turbowned]

I heard (but have no personal experience to back it up) that the weight of it increases a little once the clutch wears in more. I have no idea if it's true. Maybe the person saying this was just getting used to it after driving a twin plate Exedy-equipped Gen Coupe for a year.

Bottom line: you'll get used to it. My S4 and MR2's clutches are stark opposites where they catch. I don't have any trouble driving each car back to back during the week; just got used to it!

[luxmn]

Originally Posted by oneday

I apologize, I am a little rambunctious today.



The internet is filled with non-sense (especially forums) and ill-conceived arguments based on fictional "facts" I was just trying to determine where you were getting your facts to base your assumption on. I didn't put any words in your mouth, I simply inferred this:

from this statement you made:




In conclusion, your hypothesis is based on your vast experience over the last month and the wide cross section of four cars? You are damn near an expert in the field of clutch pedal force around the world!

Objection: Augmentative!
Sustained.

Just don't make a sweeping statement when you have [next to] zero data to support it.

damn, no one packed you lunch today or what?

im no expert and never stated so, heavy or light it's a matter of opinion there is no right or wrong, my Asian vs European is what i think, it's like trying to explain why US drives on the right and Brits on the left, it isn't "fact", never said so. if you wan't to be relevant go drive a FRS then tell me your take.

[DieDriving]

Originally Posted by Boosted2.0

I have been driving standards for 20 years. The clutch feels great to me and I have no issues modulating it. A light clutch pedal is NOT a bad thing on a long stop and go commute.

I was surprise how light the clutch is on my first test drive and I have no problem adjusted it on the fly, soft foot maybe? This is PERFECT in SoCal traffic....it makes my decision to go for another manual that much easier.

[eriktherod]

Originally Posted by Shagaliscious

I haven't driven one yet, but in my Civic Si the clutch is light as a feather. First time I test drove it I didn't think the clutch was there. It didn't take long at all to get used to. I would say after about a couple days I forgot how hard the clutch was in my previous car. After reading this, I think I will like the clutch in the FR-S.

Yup, it's similar to the 08 Si's as well. It's even lighter, I was used to the catch point on the Si's... it was about a quarter up. This one is even lower I feel but catches more gradually.

I still find myself giving it too much gas on launches, ugh. I do like the clutch though, it really pops back quick!

[oneday]

Originally Posted by luxmn

damn, no one packed you lunch today or what?

Kinda, as I said, I am in an off mood today.

Originally Posted by luxmn

im no expert and never stated so, heavy or light it's a matter of opinion there is no right or wrong, my Asian vs European is what i think, <snip> it isn't "fact", never said so. if you wan't to be relevant go drive a FRS then tell me your take.

I did drive an FR-S...and I stated my take in the post number three of this thread. If you think the FR-S clutch feels good, so be it, I genuinely have no problem with someone having that perception.

Originally Posted by luxmn

it's like trying to explain why US drives on the right and Brits on the left,

No. It's not at all. That is easy to explain because it's well documented and not based on a personal opinion:

Brits drive on the left because that what the Greeks and Romans did and because it kept opposing horsemen on their right side so they could fight them with their swords if needed...the US drives on the right because it was due to the position of drivers on Conestoga wagons. They sat on the left and keeping opposing traffic on their left made it easier for them avoid collisions with opposing traffic while on narrow trails. Citation

[eriktherod]

Originally Posted by oneday

No. It's not at all. That is easy to explain because it's well documented and not based on a personal opinion:

Brits drive on the left because that what the Greeks and Romans did and because it kept opposing horsemen on their right side so they could fight them with their swords if needed...the US drives on the right because it was due to the position of drivers on Conestoga wagons. They sat on the left and keeping opposing traffic on their left made it easier for them avoid collisions with opposing traffic while on narrow trails. Citation

I can see the Japanese doing similar, except for samurais... in carts!

[fistpoint]

Originally Posted by DantKR

It's fine. People thinking a 28k car should have a 50k car's clutch :/

An RSX doesn't cost $50k. I think the issue here is that modern clutches in small cars are simply pathetic. The tC is pathetic, the Si is pathetic, I haven't tried the BRZ/FR-S yet but everything seems to suggest it too is pathetic and for the elderly.

On the Civic forums when I was complaining about it, a responder said it's because they don't use hydraulic or mechanical clutches anymore. Well, some of us want them back!

A soft clutch has no business being in a sports car.

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by luxmn

damn, no one packed you lunch today or what?

im no expert and never stated so, heavy or light it's a matter of opinion there is no right or wrong, my Asian vs European is what i think, it's like trying to explain why US drives on the right and Brits on the left, it isn't "fact", never said so. if you wan't to be relevant go drive a FRS then tell me your take.

to be perfectly honest you came across as a bigot, you can easily avoid that in the future, if you have to ask someone not to take offense to something, you should reword it or accept that what you just said/typed is offensive.

and your response (complete with incorrect reference to the mazda) didn't fortify your E-cred.

Honestly I wouldn't let someone who just learned to drive manual drive my car, and their opinion on clutch feel is...trivial

[luxmn]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

Honestly I wouldn't let someone who just learned to drive manual drive my car, and their opinion on clutch feel is...trivial

How so? I wouldn't have bought the car at all if the clutch was too heavy for me to learn on since I didn't want to buy a sport car with auto tran. Considering that experienced drivers would have bought the car even if the clutch is heavier/lighter than what they are used to if they like the car enough, whether or not pp like me would buy the car or not is relevant.

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by fistpoint

An RSX doesn't cost $50k. I think the issue here is that modern clutches in small cars are simply pathetic. The tC is pathetic, the Si is pathetic, I haven't tried the BRZ/FR-S yet but everything seems to suggest it too is pathetic and for the elderly.

On the Civic forums when I was complaining about it, a responder said it's because they don't use hydraulic or mechanical clutches anymore. Well, some of us want them back!

A soft clutch has no business being in a sports car.

so you don't really know how a clutch works huh?

a clutch has to be either Hydraulic or Mechanical, unless they are Pneumatic or electric now...

if you need a heavy clutch to feel like a man that is your business, I however only care that the clutch transmits the required torque, and that there is modulation available, a longer motion that is softer allows better modulation (for a given weight PP) as it is providing more mechanical advantage to your leg. Weight of clutch pedal should be proportionate to the TQ value of the Motor. It can be stiffer but it is of no advantage (other than making you feel like a man apparently)

I was actually happy when I put the unsprung OS geiken clutch in my track 240sx and found it was softer than my old street/strip clutch package.

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by luxmn

How so? I wouldn't have bought the car at all if the clutch was too heavy for me to learn on since I didn't want to buy a sport car with auto tran. Considering that experienced drivers would have bought the car even if the clutch is heavier/lighter than what they are used to if they like the car enough, whether or not pp like me would buy the car or not is relevant.

nevermind, you can't even follow a conversation, remember you were bragging about all the experience you had since learning to drive manual in BMW and the "miata mx3"...

yeah whatever...

[Mazdaspeed]

I just got a chance to test drive an MT and I've got to say I was VERY happy with the clutch, especially after reading this thread. It's certainly not the greatest clutch ever, it kind of goes dead at the end of its travel and the engagement has a sort of "bump" where it gets real springy about half way through its travel, but none of this bothers me at all. It's a heck of a lot better than the RSX that I drove a few years back that had nearly no resistance at all (and that's what I was expecting after reading this thread). Finally driving the MT definitely sold me on the car, now I just need the right color to show up at the right price.

[YukiHachiRoku]

Pressing the clutch feels like cutting butter, but I kinda like that feeling lol

[MmmHamSandwich]

I only got to sit in it, but holy crap was it light. I was not a fan. Even my salesguy said when he drove it he couldn't feel where the takeup was.

I'll probably have to toy with the adjustment and maybe look into some SS lines or something. Definitely a weak point in the feel of the car.