Clutch Delay Valve? - Scion FR-S Forum | Subaru BRZ Forum | Toyota 86 GT 86 Forum | AS1 Forum

ashtray · 06-13-2012, 02:15 AM

Does the manual BRZ have a Clutch Delay Valve, or CDD?

I'm having issues shifting smooth from 1-2, and I can't figure out why. (been driving manual for 20 years, always rev-match my up and down shifts). It's like the clutch is engaging so I get on the gas and release the clutch pedal and get full clutch engagement - which has the effect of sudden acceleration as the clutch is dumped. I'm on the gas too soon, but I'm only on it when I feel 2nd gear engaging so its not free revving, but it's not smooth shifting either.

Lonewolf · 06-13-2012, 02:19 AM

This thread might have the answers you seek:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8437

ashtray · 06-13-2012, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

This thread might have the answers you seek:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8437

No, not a synchro issue. Just when I'm shifting from 1st to 2nd, I hit the gas when the clutch engages in 2nd - but it's not fully engaged and I release the clutch pedal and I get a surge forwards. Feels like I'm blowing the rev match by over revving into 2nd, and maybe it's just the high pick up point that is throwing me off.

grst1 · 06-13-2012, 07:08 AM

Was wondrering the same thing. Kinda feels that it does have clutch delay valve. My '06 S2K had it and was annoying so I took it out... Hopefully it is as easy on this car it it indeed exist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashtray

Does the manual BRZ have a Clutch Delay Valve, or CDD?

I'm having issues shifting smooth from 1-2, and I can't figure out why. (been driving manual for 20 years, always rev-match my up and down shifts). It's like the clutch is engaging so I get on the gas and release the clutch pedal and get full clutch engagement - which has the effect of sudden acceleration as the clutch is dumped. I'm on the gas too soon, but I'm only on it when I feel 2nd gear engaging so its not free revving, but it's not smooth shifting either.

Cheddar · 06-13-2012, 07:51 AM

Alot of new cars are bringing this to avoid shock to the drivetrain with noob drivers.

you just have to take Alittle longer with your 1 to 2 shift and you notice what i'm saying.

Draco-REX · 06-13-2012, 07:56 AM

Yes it does have a delay valve, but unfortunately it's built into the master cylinder.

DantKR · 06-13-2012, 08:09 AM

Start off in 2nd

lol.

grst1 · 06-13-2012, 08:30 AM

Thanks for info.... That would have been the only mod I would have done on the car...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

Yes it does have a delay valve, but unfortunately it's built into the master cylinder.

Draco-REX · 06-13-2012, 08:45 AM

I've been wondering if the clutch MC in the 2011+ STI will bolt up.

chulooz · 06-13-2012, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

Yes it does have a delay valve, but unfortunately it's built into the master cylinder.

Any diagrams or pics?

This is the first Ive heard about this... what an annoying feature to put in a 'drivers' car.

Jeff Lange · 06-13-2012, 10:33 AM

It didn't feel like it had one or much of one when I drove the car, but I am used to my Lexus which has a clutch accumulator.

Still, I can't really see the FR-S/BRZ having one. I mean it could, but what would be the point? Most other cars of this nature/price range do not have one.

I haven't taken apart the master, so I don't know for sure, maybe someone else has. None of the diagrams or information from Toyota shows anything, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's not there.

Jeff

azian_advanced · 06-13-2012, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

Yes it does have a delay valve, but unfortunately it's built into the master cylinder.

there may be one in the slave as well.

here is a how-to on removing the clutch delay valve on the master & slave cylinders.

How to Remove the Clutch Delay Valves

note that this is on a STI, but comparing the pictures in the how-to with the parts diagrams for the FRS/BRZ (pic 1, pic 2, pic 3 for reference), the parts are almost identical so the general procedure should be the same. someone will have to try this and respond back.

SkullWorks · 06-13-2012, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lange

It didn't feel like it had one or much of one when I drove the car, but I am used to my Lexus which has a clutch accumulator.

Still, I can't really see the FR-S/BRZ having one. I mean it could, but what would be the point? Most other cars of this nature/price range do not have one.

I haven't taken apart the master, so I don't know for sure, maybe someone else has. None of the diagrams or information from Toyota shows anything, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's not there.

Jeff

As mentioned the S2K has one aswell, given the list of similarities in the car, the market, and the drivetrain... I would have been more surprised if it didn't have one.

after a bit of driving the car your brain will adjust to the delay and start taking it out of the clutch release muscle memory,

Jeff Lange · 06-13-2012, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

As mentioned the S2K has one aswell, given the list of similarities in the car, the market, and the drivetrain... I would have been more surprised if it didn't have one.

after a bit of driving the car your brain will adjust to the delay and start taking it out of the clutch release muscle memory,

If it was a Toyota-based setup I would be pretty confident it wouldn't have one, but being Subaru-based my opinion doesn't count for much.

You're right though, once you get used to it you pretty much don't notice it.

Jeff

luxmn · 06-13-2012, 12:09 PM

wait so what does it mean for newbies, like me, if I want to shift smoothly again? Shift, gas a little then release the clutch slower?

SkullWorks · 06-14-2012, 01:48 PM

no it means that you effectively can't drop the clutch, even if YOU do, the car limits the speed at which the fluid flows back and therefor the shock to the system is reduced.

it means if you are a newb to clutch it won't matter because this is what you will get used to, don't even think about it just learn to drive by doing what feels smoothest

06-13-2012, 02:15 AM	#1
ashtray As Seen On The Internet Join Date: Apr 2011 Drives: NA8, WRX, BRZ 6MT Limited Location: SoCal Posts: 548 Thanks: 16 Thanked 103 Times in 69 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Clutch Delay Valve? Does the manual BRZ have a Clutch Delay Valve, or CDD? I'm having issues shifting smooth from 1-2, and I can't figure out why. (been driving manual for 20 years, always rev-match my up and down shifts). It's like the clutch is engaging so I get on the gas and release the clutch pedal and get full clutch engagement - which has the effect of sudden acceleration as the clutch is dumped. I'm on the gas too soon, but I'm only on it when I feel 2nd gear engaging so its not free revving, but it's not smooth shifting either.

06-13-2012, 07:56 AM	#6
Draco-REX Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Drives: 07 STI, 03 WRX, 13 BRZ Location: Ohio Posts: 2,244 Thanks: 61 Thanked 962 Times in 442 Posts Mentioned: 5 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Yes it does have a delay valve, but unfortunately it's built into the master cylinder. __________________ 2013 Crystal Black Silica 6MT BRZ, "Ghost"

06-13-2012, 08:45 AM	#9
Draco-REX Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Drives: 07 STI, 03 WRX, 13 BRZ Location: Ohio Posts: 2,244 Thanks: 61 Thanked 962 Times in 442 Posts Mentioned: 5 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I've been wondering if the clutch MC in the 2011+ STI will bolt up. __________________ 2013 Crystal Black Silica 6MT BRZ, "Ghost"

06-13-2012, 10:33 AM	#11
Jeff Lange Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Drives: 1986 AE86 GT-S, 2011 Lexus IS250 6M Location: Calgary, Canada Posts: 579 Thanks: 87 Thanked 240 Times in 117 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	It didn't feel like it had one or much of one when I drove the car, but I am used to my Lexus which has a clutch accumulator. Still, I can't really see the FR-S/BRZ having one. I mean it could, but what would be the point? Most other cars of this nature/price range do not have one. I haven't taken apart the master, so I don't know for sure, maybe someone else has. None of the diagrams or information from Toyota shows anything, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's not there. Jeff __________________ 2011 Lexus IS250 Obsidian "F-Sport 6MT" with LSD 1986 AE86 Corolla GT-S Supercharged

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06-13-2012, 02:19 AM	#2
Lonewolf Resident Nice Guy Join Date: Dec 2011 Drives: Moped Location: CA Posts: 2,111 Thanks: 753 Thanked 774 Times in 430 Posts Mentioned: 4 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	This thread might have the answers you seek: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8437

06-13-2012, 07:51 AM	#5
Cheddar Sideways for 5 days! Join Date: Apr 2012 Drives: 2013 FR-S Location: Miami, FL Posts: 594 Thanks: 37 Thanked 151 Times in 101 Posts Mentioned: 10 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	Alot of new cars are bringing this to avoid shock to the drivetrain with noob drivers. you just have to take Alittle longer with your 1 to 2 shift and you notice what i'm saying.

06-13-2012, 08:09 AM	#7
DantKR Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Drives: Subaru BRZ LT Location: NC Posts: 623 Thanks: 5 Thanked 81 Times in 46 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Start off in 2nd lol.

06-13-2012, 12:09 PM	#15
luxmn First FR-S Join Date: Jan 2012 Drives: Whiteout MT FRS Location: austin tx Posts: 566 Thanks: 120 Thanked 124 Times in 82 Posts Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	wait so what does it mean for newbies, like me, if I want to shift smoothly again? Shift, gas a little then release the clutch slower?

06-14-2012, 01:48 PM	#16
SkullWorks Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Drives: SSM LT MT BRZ Location: SoCal Posts: 713 Thanks: 399 Thanked 311 Times in 171 Posts Mentioned: 4 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	no it means that you effectively can't drop the clutch, even if YOU do, the car limits the speed at which the fluid flows back and therefor the shock to the system is reduced. it means if you are a newb to clutch it won't matter because this is what you will get used to, don't even think about it just learn to drive by doing what feels smoothest

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