FR-S vs 2010 Prius

[Kunzite]

But do you have any idea about how much energy/emissions are spent during production, compared with making a comparable, or even much larger car? No?
I'd rather have a Prius than a DPF diesel, by the way.

[Asterisked Accolade]

Originally Posted by HotLavaMan

Ok so I've been driving the FR-S for about 600 miles now and I finally got back into my 2010 Prius to go somewhere as I needed cargo room. Here's initial reaction:

"Um, what the hell happened to my car? It's not running right at all. I press on the gas and it doesn't go. The steering doesn't respond at all. And what is with the cornering like a boat? Oh shit, yeah, it's not the FR-S."

And I realized just how nice the FR-S is. The 49 mpg for the Prius is double what I got in the FR-s (all in-town driving) of 25.6 mpg but the FR-S is far more than double the fun of driving.

Such is life.

You don't have to have a prius to get good mileage. I have a Celica which gets 36hwy stock, and since i've modified it i clocked 48mpg on the highway at 73mph on cruise control. You don't have to have an undesirable car just for the bonus of gas mileage.

[Streetice]

Top Gear makes a good point its not what you drive its how you drive it and then I start talkingThe Prius was driven to it limits on the track were as the M3 just had to keep up that being said is just as easly said as done. The Prius is maxing out so that mean rev's at high range given that it has very very short gears were as the M3 has long gear and a 6th just for good mesure, proformance tires stock tuned suspension for cornoring stock giving the strength need to take the track at that speen and seeing as it was forced to the limits of the prius being a soft suspension and comfort tires it could only go so far.
Now yes the words "not meant for" are a pop or two away from some head but look at the whole board because the limits were no were near meet in the M3 it just crused along yet the prius all but fell apart.
So like he said its not what you dirve its how you drive it.
If I get 20mpg and the tag said 30mpg its because im puting my foot to the floor!

[serialk11r]

If we'll be a little more accurate about the Top Gear comparison (since I'm bored), the Prius should've been running at around peak engine efficiency, but since it can't corner for jack s***, it was always hard on the brakes, thus wasting a lot of energy. The M3 on the other hand can easily handle the corners much faster, so Sir Clarkson probably only dabbed the brakes slightly to "keep up", whatever that meant. I highly doubt they used 6th gear, but it's probable that they kept the M3's revs a bit lower.

[Sovran]

Try this article for an overview of the Prius vs. Hummer "research":
http://www.thecarconnection.com/tips...oding-the-myth

If you don't like that one, here's an Autoblog article which contains links to several other articles and studies on the topic:
http://green.autoblog.com/2007/08/28...turns-and-the/

Or Google it yourself, but only read articles that specifically cite their sources. Anything that doesn't cite sources is the scientific equivalent of a tabloid (which, incidentally, is exactly where the original Hummer vs. Prius article broke). Any research you want to take really seriously should be published in a peer-reviewed journal; without peer review, the whole publishing process starts to resemble a vanity press, which is not a good source of scientific data.

The only "science" (and I use that term loosely) involved in the "Hummer > Prius" argument is based on a single study done by a company called CNW Marketing Research. Anyone with scientific training in any field can look at the study and immediately point out its flaws. Here's the most telling bit of hard data, which you can find in the original CNW document or many of the later articles about it:
"...according to the [CNW] study the average Prius is expected to go 109,000 miles over its lifetime, while a Hummer H1 would go 379,000 miles."
Even if you want to believe that a Prius will fall apart after 109,000 miles, it's absurd to think that a Hummer will go 379,000 miles without requiring major repairs.

CNW itself later 'updated' its study, and the cost-per-mile of a Prius dropped by 23.5% to below that of a Hummer H2. CNW's site offers responses to the major criticisms of its original study; I don't claim any expertise of my own, but in my opinion CNW's responses still lack the hallmarks of scientific credibility.

I also find it ironic that CNW's comments focus on the risk inherent in a new car model, saying that it's unreasonable to assume that a new hybrid model will be successful and will be sold for many years to come. That remains to be seen, but there's no question that Hummer is functionally extinct.

Caveat: There is no doubt that a hybrid has a higher lifecycle cost than an equivalently sized non-hybrid vehicle. If what you truly care about is lifecycle energy cost, buy a gas-powered Civic, Corolla, or Elantra (or similar) rather than a Prius.

[Asterisked Accolade]

I have never liked the Prius. If you want good mileage, i'm sure there are more aesthetically pleasing cars out there that can ball-park a Prius' numbers. Also, i'm sure there are some that don't handle like a Pontoon.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Asterisked Accolade

I have never liked the Prius. If you want good mileage, i'm sure there are more aesthetically pleasing cars out there that can ball-park a Prius' numbers. Also, i'm sure there are some that don't handle like a Pontoon.

I'm with you there. I also personally feel the whole drivetrain is just gimmicky and a half-hearted effort. I much prefer the tech in the Volt, where the car really is an electric car. Toyota could have done better.

Yes, I realize it sorta works, but I have to wonder what the fuel mileage of the Prius would have been with just a straight fuel efficient gas engine with the same level (or lack of) power. A lot of the mileage is really in the aerodynamics anyway.

I wonder the same thing about the Volt. If they had skipped the huge battery pack, and just made it a straight electric/gas extended drive car, would the "real mileage" been much different after the first 50 miles?

[Asterisked Accolade]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I'm with you there. I also personally feel the whole drivetrain is just gimmicky and a half-hearted effort. I much prefer the tech in the Volt, where the car really is an electric car. Toyota could have done better.

Yes, I realize it sorta works, but I have to wonder what the fuel mileage of the Prius would have been with just a straight fuel efficient gas engine with the same level (or lack of) power. A lot of the mileage is really in the aerodynamics anyway.

I wonder the same thing about the Volt. If they had skipped the huge battery pack, and just made it a straight electric/gas extended drive car, would the "real mileage" been much different after the first 50 miles?

Also, Top Gear BBC was talking about how the materials needed for their synergy-drive systems comes from Canada, then goes to the UK, then goes to Japan. All the while, they're utilizing large ships, planes, refineries, ect. which all pollute. It was pretty humorous as Jeremy Clark was going on about it.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Yes, I realize it sorta works, but I have to wonder what the fuel mileage of the Prius would have been with just a straight fuel efficient gas engine with the same level (or lack of) power. A lot of the mileage is really in the aerodynamics anyway.

Nah, the reason it gets such high fuel economy is all in the power split transmission. The engine itself improves peak efficiency over most engines by like 5%, but the transmission gives them the flexibility to run the engine at barely above 1000 rpm all day, and the electric motors do a lot of the work at low speed, so it really lets the engine run at very high levels of efficiency compared to your typical car.

If you want to look at what a fuel efficient gas engine only car looks like, take a look at the Yaris or Fit. They are geared a bit short, and have better acceleration than the Prius, so if they got some mild Atkinson cycle cams and slightly longer gearing, it would be pretty comparable to a Prius as far as performance goes. With even longer gearing and supercharging, you could probably match the Prius' highway consumption.

Around the city though, the regenerative braking and mostly electric power helps the mileage a ton. How much it exactly helps though, I'm not sure. I read that the power conversion efficiency from wheel to battery back to wheel is below 50%, because the mechanical losses and battery losses are quite high, even if the motors and electronics are efficient. Something interesting to try out might be swapping the CRZ drivetrain into an MR-S, I think the significant weight reduction over a Prius might negate a lot of the strong hybrid regen braking advantage.

[was385]

Originally Posted by Subie

Don't forget the "smug" emissions, too.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155193/thanks

I was behind a prius that had a bumper sticker, which said "My car runs on 50% less war". My smug meter went through the roof. But seriously, a fuel efficient used car will always be much better for the environment than a new prius. But many people who drive the prius just want to show people that they love the earth.

[yeah2311]

Originally Posted by Subie

Don't forget the "smug" emissions, too.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155193/thanks

HAHAHAHA, I was actually watching that episode when reading this.

[solidsnake4119]

Come'on man you should know that the Prius makes 0-60 in 4.2 seconds.

[cruzinbill]

I just traded a 2010 Prius for my fr-s true story. It served its purpose and let me save cash till the damn epic wait of the "gt86" came to an end. I will admit I'm a Toyota sports car fanboy so I told my self ill wait till it comes out anything else is just so so. In the end I couldn't be happier. Lol in a way reminds me of a cross of my old mk2 supra, mk2 mr2 and a ill ae86.

[Chewie4299]

Originally Posted by HotLavaMan

Ok so I've been driving the FR-S for about 600 miles now and I finally got back into my 2010 Prius to go somewhere as I needed cargo room. Here's initial reaction:

"Um, what the hell happened to my car? It's not running right at all. I press on the gas and it doesn't go. The steering doesn't respond at all. And what is with the cornering like a boat? Oh shit, yeah, it's not the FR-S."

And I realized just how nice the FR-S is. The 49 mpg for the Prius is double what I got in the FR-s (all in-town driving) of 25.6 mpg but the FR-S is far more than double the fun of driving.

Such is life.

Yes and, as an added bonus, even with half the gas mileage you could drive both vehicles until they have 300k miles on them and the FR-S would still have done less global environmental damage!