FRS Test Drive from Cayman S / Exige Owners Perspective *WITH PICS*

[Tbomb 25]

Originally Posted by Rosso_Corsa

I agree with you that rawness in an engine is fun and inspires character.

However, there is melodic rawness (American V8s, Honda S2000, Integra Type R, etc.) and then there is unmelodic rawness. The FRS's engine, to me, is definitely in the latter category. It just does not sound nice. Like a sewing machine. In the same price category, the Miata has a nicer engine. The 370Z has a nicer engine. They sound better (370Z), feel smoother (Miata), rev happier (Miata) and feel more like instruments rather than appliances.

Just my humble opinion, of course there will be others that love this engine.

I dont know about the 370z that things sounds horrible it sounds like a remote control airplane.The FRS is very matter of fact sounding like much like the 70's and early 80's 911's....i like its raw wash machine type sound....its definetly not a smooth sound though..lol

[nedmundo]

Originally Posted by Ashe

In regards to the Steering feel, I wonder how much of that is because the steering is electric, instead of the more traditional types.

Probably, but for an electric system the FR-S's steering is very good IMO. Based on my test drive, I completely agree with the OP's description. It doesn't have strong on-center feel, and it lacks the granular feedback of a good hydraulic setup, but at least it provides information about grip levels well before the limit, which is more than most electric systems provide. It's way better than the steering in the new BMW 328i, for example, which is almost completely numb. I could be happy with it, but I hope they tighten it up on center.

I wonder how it compares to the electrically assisted setups in the new Boxter ans 911.

[Rosso_Corsa]

Originally Posted by Tbomb 25

You know i just have 1 question why on earth would you drive the auto and compare it to those 2 legends with 1 1/2 arms tied behind its back? Wow...this is amazing....lol

Because the dealer did not have a manual to test drive and told me never will.

Also, going to a manual does not change suspension. It does not change the steering. It does not change the brakes. It does not change the handling.

It does change the throttle response, how it moves off the line, and the feel of the motor somewhat. It will be better, I imagine, but won't turn it into a completely different car.

I agree though, I would only buy one in manual.

Probably, but for an electric system the FR-S's steering is very good IMO. Based on my test drive, I completely agree with the OP's description. It doesn't have strong on-center feel, and it lacks the granular feedback of a good hydraulic setup, but at least it provides information about grip levels well before the limit, which is more than most electric systems provide. It's way better than the steering in the new BMW 328i, for example, which is almost completely numb. I could be happy with it, but I hope they tighten it up on center.

I wonder how it compares to the electrically assisted setups in the new Boxter ans 911.

Interesting to know about the new 328i. I've been curious about that one as well. I don't understand why everyone is going electric. Probably for efficiency.

[JRitt]

Thanks for the review.

It looks like someone dropped a birthday cake on the hood of that poor FR-S!

[feldy]

question did you turn the nannies off and put it in sport mode?

[Rosso_Corsa]

Originally Posted by feldy

question did you turn the nannies off and put it in sport mode?

The dealer had me specifically sign a document stating that I will NOT turn off the traction control. This is kind of funny and tells you about the sorts of test pilots they must be getting.

It won't make a difference in my review. I'm not good enough of a driver anyway, and it was in the city.

I'll leave the 'drift tests' to the Playstation trained, web forum race drivers.

If by sport mode you mean moving the gear lever in the transmission, then yes. I was using the paddle shifters. This also does not matter because I would be buying one in manual.

I have a feeling that this car will soon be very expensive to insure...

[frsinpa]

Originally Posted by Rosso_Corsa

If by sport mode you mean moving the gear lever in the transmission, then yes. I was using the paddle shifters. This also does not matter because I would be buying one in manual.

I have a feeling that this car will soon be very expensive to insure...

There's an actual button that you press, which enables "sport" mode. If you didn't test drive it with that option on, it's understandable why you came away a little "underwhelmed".

See the buttons below the shifter?

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by frsinpa

There's an actual button that you press, which enables "sport" mode. If you didn't test drive it with that option on, it's understandable why you came away a little "underwhelmed".

See the buttons below the shifter?

Did you not read his review?

He had nothing bad to say about the power, just the fact that it had a TQ converter?

I didn't get the feeling he was underwhelmed by anything but the sounds coming from the motor. And potentially the fit/finish and interior

[frsinpa]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

Did you not read his review?

He had nothing bad to say about the power, just the fact that it had a TQ converter?

I didn't get the feeling he was underwhelmed by anything but the sounds coming from the motor. And potentially the fit/finish and interior

Read the above quote from the OP - he just insinuated that manual and "sport mode" were analogous. Not true at all.

[Asterisked Accolade]

Originally Posted by Rosso_Corsa

Because the dealer did not have a manual to test drive and told me never will.

Also, going to a manual does not change suspension. It does not change the steering. It does not change the brakes. It does not change the handling.

It does change the throttle response, how it moves off the line, and the feel of the motor somewhat. It will be better, I imagine, but won't turn it into a completely different car.

I agree though, I would only buy one in manual.



Interesting to know about the new 328i. I've been curious about that one as well. I don't understand why everyone is going electric. Probably for efficiency.

I heard it was to get better gas mileage. I believe something about the hydraulic systems put more stress on the engine and by switching to electric, they can achieve slightly better MPG. That's what i heard.

[MTeator]

The steering is a little hard to judge on the street where it just feels light. It's quality is more apparent on a track/etc where you can feel the oversteer or understeer coming on and make correction more easily. In my IS, it was like a video came controller and you couldn't feel the wheels, but this is good. I've not driven a cayman, but it's better than the boxsters I've driven.

I can see on the street the porsche's being judged better. I've driven an Elise, but not in anger, so I can't compare it to that, or the Exige.

[Rosso_Corsa]

There's an actual button that you press, which enables "sport" mode. If you didn't test drive it with that option on, it's understandable why you came away a little "underwhelmed".

See the buttons below the shifter?

The salesman messed with the switches before I set off. I think he did mention a sport button. I'm sure he activated it, if not, I don't care because I never felt any lack of power or torque. If you are trying to make a case for the auto better than the manual, sorry, you are entitled to your opinion but I will always buy a clutch and stick manual.

Skullworks is totally right. I was thoroughly impressed with this car, not 'underwhelmed'. No idea how you got that impression, but oh well.

[Motopythons]

This is Rosso_Corsa's friend. I was at the passenger side during the test drive, and trust me: HE WAS ON SPORT MODE. The light was on.

I made damn sure he was on it, so that he can provide me with the most accurate information.

Originally Posted by frsinpa

There's an actual button that you press, which enables "sport" mode. If you didn't test drive it with that option on, it's understandable why you came away a little "underwhelmed".

See the buttons below the shifter?

[nedmundo]

Originally Posted by Asterisked Accolade

I heard it was to get better gas mileage. I believe something about the hydraulic systems put more stress on the engine and by switching to electric, they can achieve slightly better MPG. That's what i heard.

Yes, manufacturers are adopting electrically assisted steering partly to improve mileage. In most cars, hydraulic steering pumps are a load on the engine, which hurts efficiency. In a handful, like some Mazdas, the hydraulic pumps are electrically powered, which is in theory the "best of both worlds," but those systems still have the additional components and fluid of a hydraulic system. This adds manufacturing cost, weight and, according to some, makes for a less reliable system. Expect electric assist to be the norm in very short order. It already seems to be the norm for newly introduced models, even performance cars like Porsches and the Mustang GT.

Lack of feedback (or "road feel") seems to be the biggest problem with these systems, along with vague on-center feel. I've driven several cars with electrically assisted steering, and the FR-S had the most feedback, while the Ford Focus probably had the strongest on-center feel. The steering in my 2010 Acura TSX and the 2012 BMW 328i Sport Line are similar IMO: they provide impressive accuracy and a perfectly linear response, but virtually no information from the road surface, and only adequate on-center feel. Neither provides the "locked in" sensation I've had in other performance cars. (Yes, I did try Sport Mode with the BMW.) Of course, different tires would change the steering feel in any case, and I'd wager the BMW's in particular could be improved with different tires. (Interestingly, BMW's M models -- new M5 for sure and probably upcoming M3 -- are retaining hydraulic assist, which seems like a tacit admission they can't make a true "Ultimate Driving Machine" with their electric assist. I bet they will eventually though.)

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Asterisked Accolade

I heard it was to get better gas mileage. I believe something about the hydraulic systems put more stress on the engine and by switching to electric, they can achieve slightly better MPG. That's what i heard.

It is for MPG. But i think ive read that electric systems only really nets 1mpg gain over hydraulic.

In other words, there needs to be alot of other things in place to increase mpg as a whole, and not just the electronic steering itself.

[Asterisked Accolade]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

It is for MPG. But i think ive read that electric systems only really nets 1mpg gain over hydraulic.

In other words, there needs to be alot of other things in place to increase mpg as a whole, and not just the electronic steering itself.

Hm, so maybe the electric system, in conjunction with a direct-injection system, variable valve timing, and lighter weight cars-- all add up to a better MPG rating?

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Originally Posted by JRitt

It looks like someone dropped a birthday cake on the hood of that poor FR-S!

I was just reminded of that Lonely Island song...

[Turbowned]

I just wanted to comment on the engine noise remark: I drove the FR-S with a TRD exhaust and rode in a BRZ Limited the next day. The difference was huge! Whereas the stock BRZ sounded boring and a little rough, the FR-S with the cat-back sounded very nice and sports-car-like. I'm sure with a good cat-back and removal of the sound tube into the cabin, the car will sound much more pleasing. And you liked the 370Z sound better? That thing has all the melodious sound of a school bus! Anything over 4500rpm and you can't hear a damn thing in the cabin! It's like they sacrificed all refinement and NVH control in the name of outright horsepower.

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by Rosso_Corsa

Am I ready to sell my Cayman S and get one of these instead? Not yet.

The Cayman is faster, torquier, more polished and refined, has a better interior, and has the Porsche badge. Also it steers much better, to the contrary of a review I just read which said that the FRS has better steering than a Cayman. This is false.

Great review!

I owned a 2007 Cayman S and now have a Subaru BRZ. IMHO the BRZ has better steering then the Cayman S. Get a manual, delete the engine resonator, put something other than Prius tires on it, drive it without 3 other people in the car and get back to us. Also, I agree on the FR-S interior...take a look at the Subaru Limited for something a little more upmarket.

BTW, congrats on getting 4 people in the car, that's a heck of a feat!

[Motopythons]

Originally Posted by sdiver68

Great review!

I owned a 2007 Cayman S and now have a Subaru BRZ. IMHO the BRZ has better steering then the Cayman S. Get a manual, delete the engine resonator, put something other than Prius tires on it, drive it without 3 other people in the car and get back to us. Also, I agree on the FR-S interior...take a look at the Subaru Limited for something a little more upmarket.

BTW, congrats on getting 4 people in the car, that's a heck of a feat!

I honestly don't understand what the complaints are about in regards to the rear seats.

On this test drive, we fitted 2 guys about 5'7 and 5'9 at the back. Previously, I fitted 2 girls about 5'5 back there with no complaints. Sure, their legs don't have much room to move around for long rides, but I can see it working in a city type situation. Back seats are definitely usable. For your reference, I'm 6'2 and was in my ideal driving position which sits 2 clicks closer than most people my size.

[Razz]

For steering feel you obviously never driven an RX8. I too felt it was sloppy in the BRZ
For smoothness and feedback the RX8 beats it hands down.
I hated the road noise more than the engine noise which can be fixed easily with cat back and intake.

It makes a great daily driver due to the good gas mileage.

[YW-Slayer]

Rosso, moto, thanks for your comments. They are really appreciated.

I looked at secondhand and new Elises (which I love) as an alternative, but ended up settling on a WRB Mica BRZ, even though the car would only be used as a weekend "driving" car and for very short (15 minute) commutes. The other reason for this is that the local secondhand Elise market is quite restricted in terms of selection, though frankly I think any Elise is a good one. There are just better ones.

My mate has a 2008ish Cayman S which he got for a good deal (still more expensive than the BRZ), so we will probably a bit of swapping once my car arrives and I have run it in. Obviously I wouldn't expect it to beat or equal an Elise/Exige/Cayman in terms of ultimate driving feel, but I approach the prospect of ownership in the belief that it will be the closest thing I can get to them, for the money, and with more seats and practicality!