Random thoughts thread

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Honda Insight used ultra capacitors. First little 2 door one.

I had to look that up because I know the first gen Insight didn't have ultra capacitors. It looks like they used it on the J-VX concept after a quick google search.

[ichitaka05]

YES! I won against 2 vs 1 in tennis (1 = me)!!!

Reward gonna be hellova soreness tomorrow lol

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

I had to look that up because I know the first gen Insight didn't have ultra capacitors. It looks like they used it on the J-VX concept after a quick google search.

Must be senility setting in. I have this solid but apparently incorrect memory of Honda putting ultracapcitors in the Insight, and that was part of keeping it light.

Stupid brain

[old greg]

Originally Posted by blur

Anyone know of a guide to properly setting up track suspension?

What's your driving skill level and experience, and what are you planning on doing with the car?

[Guff]

Friends and family threw me a surprise graduation party today. I was genuinely surprised too! Had quite a good time!

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

I had to look that up because I know the first gen Insight didn't have ultra capacitors. It looks like they used it on the J-VX concept after a quick google search.

Yea that's what I thought, no one has used ultracapacitors yet, Li FePO has only recently become standard, and they're talking about ultracapacitors only recently.

I'm starting to wonder what can be done to the stock 1ZZ motor in the MR-S...afterall, it's got the same displacement as the 2ZZ, and the rod stroke ratio is a healthy ~1.6. I'd imagine that no one gives a crap about that motor though, so upgraded parts would be hard to get :/ Maybe force feeding it to ~200Nm should do the trick?

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Yea that's what I thought, no one has used ultracapacitors yet, Li FePO has only recently become standard, and they're talking about ultracapacitors only recently.

I'm starting to wonder what can be done to the stock 1ZZ motor in the MR-S...afterall, it's got the same displacement as the 2ZZ, and the rod stroke ratio is a healthy ~1.6. I'd imagine that no one gives a crap about that motor though, so upgraded parts would be hard to get :/ Maybe force feeding it to ~200Nm should do the trick?

I believe TRD made a SC for it. But my memory's not having a good run today...

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Dimman

I believe TRD made a SC for it. But my memory's not having a good run today...

I think they did, but I wonder if a SC is DIYable...buying the compressor and shit is pretty cheap, and maybe I'm wrong but I think machining chunks of aluminum to make brackets and stuff isn't too hard?

At any rate, that 6900rpm rev limit on the 1ZZ is unacceptable and needs to go up :P I imagine new rods would really hurt the wallet though :/

Say, how hard is it to rebuild an engine anyways? I saw someone doing it in a Youtube video sped up, in their garage...

[blur]

Originally Posted by old greg

What's your driving skill level and experience, and what are you planning on doing with the car?

Little to none, going to AUTOx this weekend, HPDE after that, then time attack. I'm just trying to find out what kind of spring rates and sways my car will feel neutral on. Right now I'm fighting understeer... and the only solution I know of is a bigger rear swaybar. Front is 26mm, Rear is 17m... my weight distribution is roughly 60/40.

[ichitaka05]

Do you think, having a massive sore is a good excuse not go to work?

prob not LMAO

[old greg]

Originally Posted by blur

Little to none... Right now I'm fighting understeer... and the only solution I know of is a bigger rear swaybar.

Leave it more or less stock for the time being, but upgrade the brake pads, lines and fluids before you go to the track. If you feel a burning desire to throw money at your suspension right now, get an adjustable rear sway bar.

The important thing is going to be getting enough experience to be able to reliably troubleshoot your setup. First and foremost you need to know where you're understeering; Corner entrance, a quarter of the way in, mid corner, a quarter of the way out or corner exit, and on what types of corner; hairpins, sweepers, decreasing radius, increasing radius, etc. All of which are going to have different solutions which will need to be considered in conjunction with the way the car is behaving on the rest of the track; Is it stable under braking? Through that high speed chicane? etc. Everything effects everything else and no one setup will be perfect on every part of a track, much less every part of every track.

Anyway, step one is go out there and drive the damned thing.

[blur]

Originally Posted by old greg

Leave it more or less stock for the time being, but upgrade the brake pads, lines and fluids before you go to the track. If you feel a burning desire to throw money at your suspension right now, get an adjustable rear sway bar.

The important thing is going to be getting enough experience to be able to reliably troubleshoot your setup. First and foremost you need to know where you're understeering; Corner entrance, a quarter of the way in, mid corner, a quarter of the way out or corner exit, and on what types of corner; hairpins, sweepers, decreasing radius, increasing radius, etc. All of which are going to have different solutions which will need to be considered in conjunction with the way the car is behaving on the rest of the track; Is it stable under braking? Through that high speed chicane? etc. Everything effects everything else and no one setup will be perfect on every part of a track, much less every part of every track.

Anyway, step one is go out there and drive the damned thing.

Typical response for some asking help with suspension tuning. It understeers EVERYWHERE. A 20mm swaybar should have been a factory accessory. You must understand, I know how the car feels and that's why I am concerned about tracking it. The only burning desire I have is not wasting money on a 20mm when I really need a 24mm. Like I said before, I am looking for a neutral setup, not a perfect setup.

I know that driving the car around a track isn't magically going to help me understand what spring rates my car needs either. I dont know why anyone without track experience asking for help with suspension always gets shot down. Do you have any track experience with a FWD double wishbone?

btw; brakes are being done this weekend. I'm well aware of their limitations.

[ichitaka05]

Hm... some local guy is selling RWD GF8... VERY tempting

[M-17]

So much hype this past weekend leaving so much disappointment to all.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

I think they did, but I wonder if a SC is DIYable...buying the compressor and shit is pretty cheap, and maybe I'm wrong but I think machining chunks of aluminum to make brackets and stuff isn't too hard?

At any rate, that 6900rpm rev limit on the 1ZZ is unacceptable and needs to go up :P I imagine new rods would really hurt the wallet though :/

Say, how hard is it to rebuild an engine anyways? I saw someone doing it in a Youtube video sped up, in their garage...

It's not, if you know what you're doing. The difficulty from a DIY perspective is access to a mill and/or lathe plus all the tooling. If you have a LOT of time, patience and attention to detail, you can substitute a drill press, bandsaw and files for a mill. But after one time, you'll never want to do it again...

This has been a source of endless frustration for me over the past 3 years.

[Dadhawk]

Trolling through Netflix last night looking for a comedian to watch. Ran across Sinbad's Afros and Bellbottoms" special from HBO circa 1993. My 15 year old was literally ROFL from it.
Some of it was a bit dated (references to Rodney King) but I had forgotten how funny Sinbad could be. Reminded me of a more "hip" Bill Cosby, hillarious and relatively family friendly.

Very bad VHS-DVD transfer (even the credits had the VHS stutter thing going) but worth a revisit. Be patient through the opening vignette though, it was pretty lame. Once the actual standup part starts its much better.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Dimman

It's not, if you know what you're doing. The difficulty from a DIY perspective is access to a mill and/or lathe plus all the tooling. If you have a LOT of time, patience and attention to detail, you can substitute a drill press, bandsaw and files for a mill. But after one time, you'll never want to do it again...

This has been a source of endless frustration for me over the past 3 years.

When I was in 8th grade I was extremely stupid and attempted to make my own waterblocks (for computer) with a dremel and hand held drill. I think I know what you're talking about. I later got access to an old mill, but gave up and just cut a few holes in with a drill press and called it a day.

Anyway, I think if I were to get an MR-S someday I would probably keep the engine mostly stock, perhaps reroute the exhaust so it doesn't stick out the bumper like that (bad for aero) but that's it. Maybe a DIY cooled EGR for hypermiling rofl. When the 1ZZ finally gives up, I might try to do something exciting with it.

[old greg]

Originally Posted by blur

Typical response for some asking help with suspension tuning... I dont know why anyone without track experience asking for help with suspension always gets shot down.

It's because, most of the time, people without track experience don't ask the right questions or provide enough information. Either they ask vague questions, the answers to which are very long and contain multiple caveats and variables, or they ask questions that simply can't be answered by random strangers on the internet. Even on huge budget race teams suspension tuning is just a series of informed guesses and the more information you have the better guesses you can make. Asking someone on the internet for suspension advice with little to no information is like telling your doctor that your stomach hurts and then immediately demanding that he write you a prescription.

Originally Posted by blur

I know that driving the car around a track isn't magically going to help me understand what spring rates my car needs either.

It isn't supposed to, and I never suggested it would.

Originally Posted by blur

The only burning desire I have is not wasting money on a 20mm when I really need a 24mm. Like I said before, I am looking for a neutral setup, not a perfect setup.

Modifying and tracking cars is an exercise in wasting money. But anyway, that's why I recommended an adjustable sway bar. A 22mm adjustable swaybar can be the equivalent of a 20mm or 24mm bar depending on which holes you attach your endlinks to.

Originally Posted by blur

It understeers EVERYWHERE. A 20mm swaybar should have been a factory accessory. You must understand, I know how the car feels and that's why I am concerned about tracking it.

Understeer isn't going to kill you, just slow you down. But given that you have no autoX or track experience yet, it's not as if you'd be competitive anyway.

The absolute best thing you can do right now is to work on your driving. Like I said earlier, if it's that big of a deal buy an adjustable rear swaybar. After a few autoX events, maybe even make an alignment change. But your focus should be on tightening the nut behind the wheel rather than screwing with the suspension.

Originally Posted by blur

Do you have any track experience with a FWD double wishbone?

FWD and double wishbones: AutoX. RWD and double wishbones: AutoX and track.

[blur]

Originally Posted by old greg

Understeer isn't going to kill you, just slow you down. But given that you have no autoX or track experience yet, it's not as if you'd be competitive anyway.

The absolute best thing you can do right now is to work on your driving. Like I said earlier, if it's that big of a deal buy an adjustable rear swaybar. After a few autoX events, maybe even make an alignment change. But your focus should be on tightening the nut behind the wheel rather than screwing with the suspension.

What if I'm not trying to be competitive? I can't adjust my suspension unless I'm a seasoned vet racing door to door? I don't understand that mentality. Extremely condescending of you. Driving is the easy and fun part... and it does NOT teach you how to tune your car. When you mentioned getting an alignment done, I assume you mean to non-oem specs.... how would I know what to run? Or would my driving experience magically help me? I've seen people racing for years asking for help with racing alignment. Driving experience and knowing how to tune suspension is NOT related at all. There are many mechanics that don't know how to drive but can set up a car to drive like it's on rails.

The way cars are tuned nowadays, all people do is borrow someone else's setups or advice based on their experience in experimentation on that platform. There is no science or physics in it whatsoever. Now this is fine and dandy, until someone decides to race a car that isn't a popular tuning platform. The forum for my accord is full of hellaflush guys that don't even know what a double wishbone is(not kidding). Hence why I ask for a more scientific based approach to suspension tuning.

Anyway, I think I found something on the web that pertains to my approach, thanks for your suggestion of an adjustable 22mm sway though.

[old greg]

You make one change at a time and see if it makes the car faster or slower. That's all there is to it, whether you're in local autocrossing or Formula 1. Math, science, instrumentation/datalogging etc. can help you decide which parameter to change and which direction to change it in, experience can help you decide how much to change it by. But in the end you take a guess, you make a change, and you see what happens. If it's better change it some more, if it's worse change it back.

Start reading if you want to learn.

Carroll Smith

Carroll Smith

and

Paul Haney

Paul Haney

are a good place to start. Just understand that the rabbit hole goes very, very deep.

[M-17]

Here you go Exhaust and all other Supra maniacs.

This is long over due, but here's that Supra I mentioned a long time ago.

[blur]

Originally Posted by old greg

You make one change at a time and see if it makes the car faster or slower. That's all there is to it, whether you're in local autocrossing or Formula 1. Math, science, instrumentation/datalogging etc. can help you decide which parameter to change and which direction to change it in, experience can help you decide how much to change it by. But in the end you take a guess, you make a change, and you see what happens. If it's better change it some more, if it's worse change it back.

Start reading if you want to learn. Carroll Smith and Paul Haney are a good place to start. Just understand that the rabbit hole goes very, very deep.

Wow Caroll Smith's tune to win is an awesome read(I'm scrolling through the amazon preview). Thanks!