Edelbrock E-Force Supercharger

[ConElite]

Originally Posted by JoeC

what does it mean, "with tuner"?
Will I still have to get a custom tune to make this work or does it come with prebuilt maps? If so, does it come with high-altitude maps or does that not matter?

Edelbrock provides a completely custom tune thats provided with the ECUtek tuner. If a customer wants to do their own tune, you will NOT be able to modify the tune from Edelbrock. You would have to start with stock tune or one from scratch. (I been talking to someone at Edelbrock)

[JoeC]

Originally Posted by ConElite

Edelbrock provides a completely custom tune thats provided with the ECUtek tuner. If a customer wants to do their own tune, you will NOT be able to modify the tune from Edelbrock. You would have to start with stock tune or one from scratch. (I been talking to someone at Edelbrock)

Can you elaborate on "completely custom"? To me, that would mean a tune specific to MY car and I would think a tune for my car at 6,000ft above sea level is a lot different than than some else's near sea level.

Thanks for responding, ConElite

[sactownbwoy]

Originally Posted by JoeC

Can you elaborate on "completely custom"? To me, that would mean a tune specific to MY car and I would think a tune for my car at 6,000ft above sea level is a lot different than than some else's near sea level.

Thanks for responding, ConElite

That is correct, a custom tune is specific to your car, using info and logs from your car

[JoeC]

Originally Posted by sactownbwoy

That is correct, a custom tune is specific to your car, using info and logs from your car

gotcha. that's awesome. I'm super interested in this kit.

[AppleSauce]

so what types of internal mods need to be done to go beyond 320 whp safely? how expensive are these mods in ballpark range? is there some good literature to read about this type of thing?

[sobrz]

looks like a bad fitment here, no?

(fyi: i'm not trolling, I'm really hoping this kit lives up to the expectations).

[The Racers Line]

Originally Posted by AppleSauce

so what types of internal mods need to be done to go beyond 320 whp safely? how expensive are these mods in ballpark range? is there some good literature to read about this type of thing?

At the very least, stronger rods and upgrade the oiling system(more important for track use)

Here is a good read, although suited more towards track cars, it will still give you a good idea for whats required.

http://elementtuning.com/2015/01/08/...20-or-fa20dit/

"The Achilles heal to our beloved OEM FA20 motors have been the OEM connecting rods. While these rods are perfectly suited for OEM hp levels, when the power increases above 300 and RPM exceeds 7500 they are no longer reliable. We experienced OEM rod failure under racing conditions in the 350 ft/lbs of torque range". -Element Tuning-

[Reaper]

There is alot of misinformation here. With e85 the fa20 is reliable past 350whp. I've been at 450+whp for 23,000 miles on a stock engine.

Valves springs are on the weak side for anything past 16 psi and the rocker arms seem to eject themselves from the engine past 8200 pretty consistently. If you have a supercharger or a larger turbo (i.e. gtx30) you'll be more likely to be using more rpms. My longevity is probably partially related to the fact that I make peak wtq of almost 400 under 4400 rpm and peak hp before 7200. I really like the gtx2867r. I rarely shift past 7300 unless i need to avoid a shift on a long straight
.
The factory rods have been doing fine in a few engines past 600whp and over 400wtq. The weak link is the factory pistons. They are not boxed and have very short skirts. Every engine I've seen window a block or bend a rod was because the piston came apart first. Not the other way around. The piston broke first. Usually from too much rpm. The pistons break at the wrist pin.


The oiling system becomes a problem when you combine high heat, more than 400whp and you start taking away oil volume when it gets stuck in the wrong places during long high G corners. A good 40w and a good oil cooler will be fine for anyone under 420whp on streetbtires. Slicks and 400hp start causing oiling issues. But you'll also start breaking transmissions every track day too.
Transmissions on the other hand......

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by BigFatFlip

Not a dumb question at all, I'm curious as well. I would guess its entirely dependent on the tune. I would think that the CARB tune would be optimized for 91 since that's what is available in CA and anything above would just be extra knock resistance (no timing advancement, etc for more power.)

Originally Posted by ravisraval

Potentially dumb question alert: will better fuel, like 93 or a mix with 91/100 (not e85), automatically get better output from the CARB tune, or would you need a separate tune?

I would expect Edelbrock's tune to adapt to higher octane gasoline to a degree via the ECU's dynamic timing advance capability.

Will it be 100% as good as a custom tune for getting every last bit? No. Will it get the majority? Absolutely.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by JoeC

what does it mean, "with tuner"?
Will I still have to get a custom tune to make this work or does it come with prebuilt maps? If so, does it come with high-altitude maps or does that not matter?

"With tuner" means with an Ecutek license/cable/dongle so that you can tune your own car (with the Edelbrock supplied tune, or with a tuner of your choice)

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by JoeC

Can you elaborate on "completely custom"? To me, that would mean a tune specific to MY car and I would think a tune for my car at 6,000ft above sea level is a lot different than than some else's near sea level.

Thanks for responding, ConElite

Generally speaking, low altitude tunes work well at high altitude (the Edelbrock tune is Speed Density/Manifold Air Pressure based), but high altitude tunes will not always work well at low altitude.

Reducing air pressure is okay, but overpressurizing usually is bad.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by AppleSauce

so what types of internal mods need to be done to go beyond 320 whp safely? how expensive are these mods in ballpark range? is there some good literature to read about this type of thing?

A basic bottom end build would be just bearings, rods, and pistons.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Reaper

There is alot of misinformation here. With e85 the fa20 is reliable past 350whp. I've been at 450+whp for 23,000 miles on a stock engine.

Valves springs are on the weak side for anything past 16 psi and the rocker arms seem to eject themselves from the engine past 8200 pretty consistently. If you have a supercharger or a larger turbo (i.e. gtx30) you'll be more likely to be using more rpms. My longevity is probably partially related to the fact that I make peak wtq of almost 400 under 4400 rpm and peak hp before 7200. I really like the gtx2867r. I rarely shift past 7300 unless i need to avoid a shift on a long straight
.
The factory rods have been doing fine in a few engines past 600whp and over 400wtq. The weak link is the factory pistons. They are not boxed and have very short skirts. Every engine I've seen window a block or bend a rod was because the piston came apart first. Not the other way around. The piston broke first. Usually from too much rpm. The pistons break at the wrist pin.


The oiling system becomes a problem when you combine high heat, more than 400whp and you start taking away oil volume when it gets stuck in the wrong places during long high G corners. A good 40w and a good oil cooler will be fine for anyone under 420whp on streetbtires. Slicks and 400hp start causing oiling issues. But you'll also start breaking transmissions every track day too.
Transmissions on the other hand......

How long do you think your engine would last with me flogging it (but within your guideline of shifting at 7000 RPM) at the track? That is my standard for testing. To me, the fact that your car is still running is a sign that you're not abusing it heavily; the transmission would have been long gone at your torque levels if you were. Engine life is always one of those YMMV things, as everyone has different requirements and driving habits.

I do agree that the valve springs are sketchy (even NA), but raising boost pressure is not the only way to increase power output, and is not always the easiest or best solution. Understandably, your situation is a bit different since you're turbocharged.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

How long do you think your engine would last with me flogging it (but within your guideline of shifting at 7000 RPM) at the track? That is my standard for testing. To me, the fact that your car is still running is a sign that you're not abusing it heavily; the transmission would have been long gone at your torque levels if you were. Engine life is always one of those YMMV things, as everyone has different requirements and driving habits.

I do agree that the valve springs are sketchy (even NA), but raising boost pressure is not the only way to increase power output, and is not always the easiest or best solution. Understandably, your situation is a bit different since you're turbocharged.

I know I've been gone for awhile but did you already forget who I am? I've went through 4 transmissions last year. Eric at velox has one of my grenaded ones. I'm also the guy who melted the dust seals out of a stock brake caliper and you guys expedited me some APs so I could get back on track. I beat the shit out of my car. I shift early because the gtx28 runs out of VE at 16 psi and 7200 rpm. It's just not worth it. Now if I'm running a lower psi tune for weight to hp restrictions I shift later because I make power closer to my 7800 redline. But at full kill mode 460whp tune the gtx28 falls on its face at 7500. Just can't flow anymore air.