Awful Dealer Experience in Hollywood

[Zgrinch]

[denkigrve]

Originally Posted by MrFRsLa

Sorry to hear it. I have just have been upfront with everyone I have spoke to. I wasn't sure what the market was going to be like at the launch. Mine all have leather but at least I will be upfront and tell you.

I'm glad you're being straight forward.

As said buyer, and one that was considering calling you at one point, I'm sad to see that you're putting leather in all of your cars. Are you going to do this for all allocations for the foreseeable future? You're all over those forums, and see how the users react to the cars and markups, etc, so it strikes me as odd that you'd do this.

EDIT: Removed the loan comment as I was wrong. Just did some keyboard homework.

[MrFRsLa]

Originally Posted by Zgrinch

So the only way you would give someone what they really wanted was to have them pay in full with cash ? What if the bank doesnt want leather either ...

Unreal. If you want to tell the truth then come out an say profits mean more to you than customer satisfaction. Truth.

No paying cash would give you the title full ownership over the car instantly. Your right the bank can choose wether they want to take the loan or not.

Which customer is unsatisfied?

[Laika]

When I hear about things like this, the child in me can't help but think that the dealership is just jealous in our new awesome FR coupe so they want to kill our happiness by making money themselves.

MRfrsLA makes a point though, we don't own these cars and if we wanted the car a certain way for MSRP, we would have gotten that in writing before signing leaving any sort of deposit.

[MrFRsLa]

Originally Posted by blu_

No idea what car loan bit is about. I mean you realize your dealership finances the cars sitting on the lot, most likely through a line of credit securitized with your inventory? Did you ask the bank before you added aftermarket accessories to their inventory? I mean realistically they decrease the value of the car.

Also what about getting a kid a loan through said bank who owns the car after sale which is $3k above MSRP? Is that really in the banks interest?

Yes, I do realize my dealership finances every car on our lot. It's referred to as "flooring". Again the bank can choose to take the loan or not.

[blu_]

Originally Posted by MrFRsLa

Yes, I do realize my dealership finances every car on our lot. It's referred to as "flooring". Again the bank can choose to take the loan or not.

A point I will make is: Remember dealers still own these car. They are not "your" cars. Another point is : Will anyone be financing and FR-s or BRZ? Maybe thru B of A or USAA, Well then again "not your" car. The bank will legally hold the title of your FR-s tell its paid off.

Just pointing something out.

[MrFRsLa]

Originally Posted by wu_dot_com

you are merely there to provide a simple service. the customer let you know what they want, and you go execute to the best of your ability to meet their demand.

the deposit transaction that was given is simply formality to show both party will act on good faith.

i picked up a BRZ last weekend. my sales person was very direct and upfront about what he can and can not do. he doesn’t try to up sell, add unwanted add on, or try something else to maximize his earning. guess what, by doing just that and providing a service of inform me with the progress of my order, he have earned top rating in terms of customer service from me, which will yield him a bonus at the end. in addition, becuase of his HONEST service, i am recommending him to everyone else who is interested in a BRZ even if they can get a car sooner becuase he is dependable.

based on what you are saying, your underlying message tells me that, from the get go you are not capable of meeting customer demand. that you are not to be trusted, which is why you don’t want to take a deposit because you are in no position to make and keep a promise.

You are correct. Seeing that I am a small Scion dealer trying to increase my volume. After the few dozen phone calls I recieved I realized that demand was to high for the limited allocation that I would be getting. So I did not take any deposits. "you are not capable of meeting customer demand." Yes you are correct in that regards.

"you are in no position to make and keep a promise" incorrect, I promised that I would stay in touch and let everyone know when the FR-s arrived. I called and emailed everyone on my list. If you happen to look in a few California posts that I have you will see that I followed up almost instantly

[Hanakuso]

Originally Posted by Rampage

Yeah, kinda does. Many people are buying the FR-S as a "sports" car. Leather is a luxury item that is actually often a detriment in a sports car because it does not hold you in place like a good cloth seat. I would not buy a car from you.

I agree 100%. Why would a dealership add on aftermarket leather in the first place on the FR-S? Dealerships that are doing this don't care about you, they are just milking the demand and cashing in. They should at least make add-ons as an option with the customers consent. Carson Scion added all kinda of crap that I would never need but made the car way over MSRP

[MrFRsLa]

Originally Posted by denkigrve

I'm glad you're being straight forward.

As said buyer, and one that was considering calling you at one point, I'm sad to see that you're putting leather in all of your cars. Are you going to do this for all allocations for the forceable future? You're all over those forums, and see how the users react to the cars and markups, etc, so it strikes me as odd that you'd do this.

EDIT: Removed the loan comment as I was wrong. Just did some keyboard homework.

I am just the sales guy..... No say in what we do with cars. Not such about future allocations.

[MrFRsLa]

Originally Posted by Capt Canuck

Wow! That makes zero sense.

When I got my mortgage on my condo, the bank effectively owned the vast majority of it.
But funnily enough, after agreeing to the mortgage they didn't subsequently send builders around to install a load of naff shag carpeting, put My Little Pony wallpaper all over the place, and then insist I still live in it.

The method of payment should have sweet feck all to do with the condition of goods someone purchases and what they should expect to receive.

I would responsed to this but seeing that you live in the bay area and your userman is Capt Canuck. I will not

I grew up in San Jose so I will not responsed to anything that has Canuck related to it! Go Sharks!

[MrFRsLa]

Originally Posted by Hanakuso

I agree 100%. Why would a dealership add on aftermarket leather in the first place on the FR-S? Dealerships that are doing this don't care about you, they are just milking the demand and cashing in. They should at least make add-ons as an option with the customers consent. Carson Scion added all kinda of crap that I would never need but made the car way over MSRP

You said it yourself Demand, that will be the key word around this car for a few month besides, WOW what a great car.

[LeavingNormal]

Originally Posted by MrFRsLa

Sorry to hear it. I have just have been upfront with everyone I have spoke to. I wasn't sure what the market was going to be like at the launch. Mine all have leather but at least I will be upfront and tell you.

True story I spoke with him after a similar experience this weekend. You can't take it personally it just up to each dealer. Best thing to do is shop around and find one with minimal add ons.

OP if it's not too much of a hike, or he'll just call Hooman scion in lbc. They have minimal add ons, only problem for me is I'm still waiting for my car to show up this week.

[denkigrve]

Originally Posted by MrFRsLa

I am just the sales guy..... No say in what we do with cars. Not such about future allocations.

(Ugh. Just saw that I fat fingered "foreseeable" and autocorrect was like "Oh you meant forceable!" Pretty funny when you read it out loud.)

I totally get that. You're just trying to be helpful, and I really respect you for how honest you've been on these forums. Sometimes I know that the people above you make decisions you cannot control, so you do what you can with what you have.

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by MrFRsLa

You are correct. Seeing that I am a small Scion dealer trying to increase my volume.

Seeing as you are "a small Scion dealer trying to increase my volume." wouldn't it make sense to give the customers what they want and sell the car for a fair price thereby increasing sales and future allocations?

You may be falling prey to your own marketing hype that the FR-S is going to be a hard to find car for months to come. I predict that cars will be readily available at MSRP in several weeks. We shall see.

EDIT: Anyway, I see that you say you are just a salesman. I wish you luck in selling your FR-S allocation with those marked up prices. It is going to make it tough on you. /thread

[Zgrinch]

Originally Posted by MrFRsLa

No paying cash would give you the title full ownership over the car instantly. Your right the bank can choose wether they want to take the loan or not.

Which customer is unsatisfied?

I'm sorry, I missed your answer to my original question. If I was paying cash, would you sell me the car the exact way I wanted it. I.E, at MSRP without leather or any other add-ons ?

[denkigrve]

/Rant

This adding on of stuff and "You get what we say you want" attitude Scion is taking is going to quickly kill the buzz around this car. It's going to end up as a "This could have been great." Type of thing that was quickly destroyed by greed.

The first people that are going to buy this car NOW are the enthusiasts, the fans, the people that have been waiting for years to buy this car. They are the ones who are going to be your street team, your word of mouth sales team. They are the ones that are going to help drive further sales of the vehicle. No-one at these dealerships seem to understand that. They all want money NOW. No-one is going to pay 30k for a Scion lightly. Especially not in this economy. The brand just doesn't hold that kind of weight behind it. It's target audience as a brand are younger people who are on a budget.

Personally putting this car around 30k makes me walk. I can go buy a Cooper S EXACTLY as how I want it instead for that price. E-X-A-C-T-L-Y. I'm not getting things that the dealer feels I "need" to get. Tada-sans vision for this car has been completely lost on the Scion management in the US. I'm actually pretty sure that Jack Hollis would also not be please to see so many dealers turning off this key sales audience with tactics like this. If you want this car to do well, treat your customers like customers and not like numbers. Help them get what they want, and they'll come back to you, recommend people to you. Netting you MORE sales.

I really hope Scion wakes up. They're gonna end up with a lot of cars sitting on the lots if they keep adding forced add-ons to these cars. Scion really took care of most of the 1st 86 people, it's a shame they aren't doing that for the other potential owners. They really didn't get the whole concept of this car as a platform. They jumped the gun on trying to get add-ons, and didn't think about the future. "Once word is out and we have more things we can add, we can work on getting future users to do the bolt-ons." Once the fans and enthusiasts move on, the me-too crowd shows up. The People that had no clue and want luxury things show up. Then it's time to add leather, HID, Nav, etc. Those will be things they want in their car, and they'll likely be wiling to shell out for that.

As an automotive enthusiast, I'm not willing to pay for that stuff. I don't need it. It adds weight, it sets this car up as a "Could have been great" car. I have YET to find a car in the bay area that doesn't have stuff added on to it. As a long time fan, and someone who saved up enough cash, and moved financial mountains to make this purchase happen. I'm sad and disappointed by the man-handling of this car in the US at this point, specifically in my area. So much wasted potential ruined by greed and an inability to be a forward thinker.

/end rant

[Oversteer]

/Hijack rant
Amazing how short sighted dealers can be. People do remember. The problem is it doesn't just hurt the dealership, it hurts the brand. If only there were a way to quantify the damage it does, dealers, and car makers would be a little smarter about how they treat the few people they can get to be passionate about their cars.
/end Hijack rant

[Hanakuso]

Originally Posted by Zgrinch

I'm sorry, I missed your answer to my original question. If I was paying cash, would you sell me the car the exact way I wanted it. I.E, at MSRP without leather or any other add-ons ?

Let's just look at it in a simple matter. His whole argument about who owns the car was just a justification for marking up the car that is in high demand right now.

Just wait till all the hype dies down and more cars are available. If you want it now expect to play the mark up game. If you can wait then I would suggest throwing a deposit down at a dealership that isn't marking up the car to people that have been waiting on there preorders

[Sall]

Everyone in socal should go with jeff at longo toyota very nice guy honest maybe the waitlist is bigger then in other places but your buying or financing a 25 k car and im
sure for some of us is quite some Money leave the hype behind there will be frs for everyone sooner or later you just gotta be mature enough to wait and make the right decision and not go with shady delaers who arr just trying to make easy and fast money outta us anxious people who cannot wait for frs again lets be mature and wait to get what WE WANT

[denkigrve]

Originally Posted by Oversteer

/Hijack rant
Amazing how short sighted dealers can be. People do remember. The problem is it doesn't just hurt the dealership, it hurts the brand. If only there were a way to quantify the damage it does, dealers, and car makers would be a little smarter about how they treat the few people they can get to be passionate about their cars.
/end Hijack rant

There are ways to do that, but it'd have to be done internally at Toyota, and it'd take a lot of time/work. I do something at my job called "failure analysis" where we specifically look at product failures and scour forums/posts and try to dig as much data as we can do see the financial impact to the company. We then use that to help the engineering teams know what are the biggest user impacts, and how to prioritize certain fixes.

The end of the year results will also be a HUGE indicator.

Another avenue potential customers can take is petitioning higher up VPs, execs. People write to execs all of the time, and get them to start yelling down the chain trying to figure out what's broken, and why is this person complaining.

I've half thought of trying to see if Moto could get an open letter to Jack Hollis or Tada-san about how customers of this new platform are being treated by these dealers, and how we are fearing for the future of this brand. It at least plants the idea in their head, and raises that concern for something that they hold very dear.

[Hanakuso]

Originally Posted by Sall

Everyone in socal should go with jeff at longo toyota very nice guy honest maybe the waitlist is bigger then in other places but your buying or financing a 25 k car leave the hype behind there will be frs for everyone sooner or later you just gotta be mature enough to wait and make the right decision and not go with shady delaers who arr just trying to make easy and fast money outta us anxious people who cannot wait for frs again lets be mature and wait to get what WE WANT

Exactly. I went with Longo knowing I'll be in the 30s or 40s on the wait list but at least I know they won't mess around with me and try to throw in a few add ons without my consent. Its good to know my hard earn money is going to people that respect me. It's not a fluke my family and I have bought over a dozen cars from Longo

[Celicadude]

Originally Posted by Zgrinch

^Lol. But in all seriousness this is why I have a problem with non refundable deposits because it leaves you wide open for this kind of crap. To MrFRSLa I use to work in the business and I know exactly why you dealers throw all this crap on the cars and it's to take advantage of hype. It's all about trying to make a fast buck by playing on peoples emotions. Leather seats, edge guard, window etching, it's all just another way to nickel and dime your customer. I've seen it done with new model CRV's, civics, accords etc (Back in the good old honda days). And guess what. They sat on the lot with all these extra add ons collecting dust because everyone went down the street to the other dealer who wasn't trying to pull a fast one. The ones that we did sell sold for a steep discount.

I've mentioned this before in another post, but if you (the buying public) want to stop these shady practices take your business elsewhere. These aren't limited edition porsches, these cars will be readily available in a few months, so don't fall for the crap. They're just trying to find another sucker. Money is power and if you reward these practices they will continue. Use your money to support good business practices and these jokers will follow suit. I for one don't mind paying extra for good service especially if it means I'm not support bad customer service. I understand dealers are a business and they're in it to make money, I get that, but when you try and sell people what they don't want and then charge them extra for it, you are no longer a legitimate business in my book, and therefor don't deserve my money.

So to the OP, get your deposit back look around elsewhere. Hell wait a few months. All these FRSs with dealer add ons will be selling with deep discounts in no time.

PS: if you want to see some serious dealer add on fail check this out: http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...-is-incredible