BRZ Exposed by PERRIN

[Jordo!]

Ehhh... not to pee in anyone's pudding, but I'm finding similar evidence of issues with light weight, undampened pulleys on subie boxers just as you can find for other motors.

For example...

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthrea...di-29425.html?

I only asked because I have zero experience with boxer motors... nevertheless, no reason to presume harmonics are not an issue.

Now, I'm not suggesting this is a colossally bad idea that may trash the engine, just that at minimum it would be nice to have confirmation that the crank position sensor won't throw misfires after a few hundred miles.

I err on the side of caution (or at least think about the gain vs risk ratio) as engines aint cheap... just a well intentioned heads up for fellow nervous nellies.

[v12]

silly question is it easy to access fuel tank like insides

[WWEVOX]

Thank you for this information. This really helps us understand our cars and not tragically mess up all the engineering that went into them.

[Scooby South]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Ehhh... not to pee in anyone's pudding, but I'm finding similar evidence of issues with light weight, undampened pulleys on subie boxers just as you can find for other motors.

For example...

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthrea...di-29425.html?

I only asked because I have zero experience with boxer motors... nevertheless, no reason to presume harmonics are not an issue.

Now, I'm not suggesting this is a colossally bad idea that may trash the engine, just that at minimum it would be nice to have confirmation that the crank position sensor won't throw misfires after a few hundred miles.

I err on the side of caution (or at least think about the gain vs risk ratio) as engines aint cheap... just a well intentioned heads up for fellow nervous nellies.

Never ever had an issue on 5 Subaru's... all of them had Lightened pulleys.
a 2000 RS...Same 2000RS with a 2.0 Swap, 1997 Legacy GT, 2005 STi, and a 1999 Impreza Wagon...None of them had any problems...ever.. the 4 holes your referring to are where the Crank tool goes to be able to take the pulley off...there is no weight removal...Whoever posted that on Legacy GT was not well informed...AT ALL.. there is a rubber peice inside the pulley for NVH...but is not imperative that it be there....

honestly...all it is...is a drive pulley for assy stuff..all the timing stuff is behind the covers...

Bill

[djliquidsteele]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lange

SU003-02818

Jeff

Is this the same part number for both upper and lower bolts in order to get maximum camber adjustment?

Thanks

[pdreams]

Originally Posted by PERRIN_Jeff

This may sound funny but the second thing I did was take off that oil filter. I was dying to see what would really happen. Would it dump oil everywhere? Would it make for a huge mess? Would dirt get sucked down in to the oil? No, No and No. Super clear, super simple, and I can't wait to do an oil change!

Hi,

Interesting take on the oil filter holder. Would anyone happen to know if a sandwich adaptor will fit into the filter housing?

I am planning to run some sensors and hoses for the gauges and oil cooler respectively by using a Greddy sandwich adaptor. I am concern if there would be enough space to close the bonnet after installing the adaptor seeing how tight it could already be. We typically would not have such an issue but this time round, the oil filter is actually facing upwards.

Look forward to some advice from anyone who is planning to do the same.

[Ranatsu]

I've run the Perrin LW Crank Pulley for over 90K miles on my 04 STi with no issues. The people who reported having the misfire problems were running 11 lbs flywheels along with a lightened crank pulley. This was causing a drastic change in the momentum of the crank on and off throttle making the ecu THINK it was misfiring, but it wasn't.

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Ehhh... not to pee in anyone's pudding, but I'm finding similar evidence of issues with light weight, undampened pulleys on subie boxers just as you can find for other motors.

For example...

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthrea...di-29425.html?

I only asked because I have zero experience with boxer motors... nevertheless, no reason to presume harmonics are not an issue.

Now, I'm not suggesting this is a colossally bad idea that may trash the engine, just that at minimum it would be nice to have confirmation that the crank position sensor won't throw misfires after a few hundred miles.

I err on the side of caution (or at least think about the gain vs risk ratio) as engines aint cheap... just a well intentioned heads up for fellow nervous nellies.

[bestwheelbase]

Originally Posted by Ranatsu

I've run the Perrin LW Crank Pulley for over 90K miles on my 04 STi with no issues. The people who reported having the misfire problems were running 11 lbs flywheels along with a lightened crank pulley. This was causing a drastic change in the momentum of the crank on and off throttle making the ecu THINK it was misfiring, but it wasn't.

Interesting.

[civicdrivr]

Originally Posted by Ranatsu

I've run the Perrin LW Crank Pulley for over 90K miles on my 04 STi with no issues. The people who reported having the misfire problems were running 11 lbs flywheels along with a lightened crank pulley. This was causing a drastic change in the momentum of the crank on and off throttle making the ecu THINK it was misfiring, but it wasn't.

This might be why my other car (lightweight underdrive pulley and flywheel) occasionally throws a random misfire code. By occasionally, I mean once every 1-2 months. The car doesnt drive any differently.

[Scooby South]

If you do run a lightened Flywheel...AND a Lightened pully...and throw a code...the reason is the Crank Sensor can't keep up with the Revs......It actually revs to fast for the crank sensor throwing a mis-fire code..

Bill

[*KID*]

So sick, thanks for taking the time and photos for us.

Would like to see what products you guys are gonna come up with, I bet the header, and a good dyno tune on these cars with a solid intake with same engineered air box will produce very good gains.

[Jayde]

Originally Posted by pdreams

Hi,

Interesting take on the oil filter holder. Would anyone happen to know if a sandwich adaptor will fit into the filter housing?

I am planning to run some sensors and hoses for the gauges and oil cooler respectively by using a Greddy sandwich adaptor. I am concern if there would be enough space to close the bonnet after installing the adaptor seeing how tight it could already be. We typically would not have such an issue but this time round, the oil filter is actually facing upwards.

Look forward to some advice from anyone who is planning to do the same.

I'm sure someone will make a kit for it, but I wouldn't be surprised if you could just plug something into the OBD connector and get everything you want off that.

[PD5015]

Tons of great information on here! definitely excited to see what else Perrin comes out with

[ngabdala]

Stop bothering the Perrin's guys. Let them work on the BRZ instead of reading through all these posts

[mattles]

If I have to choose, light flywheel or light crank pully, Id do light flywheel. However Id like to see someone put an electronics package together so both can be installed without issues.

[Ranatsu]

Originally Posted by mattles

If I have to choose, light flywheel or light crank pully, Id do light flywheel. However Id like to see someone put an electronics package together so both can be installed without issues.

I don't think it will be a problem really. I haven't read about anyone with the 32 bit Subaru ECU having the problem. It was mainly the 02-05 WRX

[blu_]

Got mine today. Is the pulley a final revision? I will stop by or schedule an appointment if so.

Edit: subtly whoring out local support.

[PERRIN_Jeff]

Sorry for the lack of responses. I was on dyno most of the day friday testing out a ton of things and perfecting our CAI. Same goes for Saturday, spent tons of time making a couple of new things to test.

Originally Posted by F1point4

Thanks Jeff for posting your detailed observations. I had a few questions

1) The wire pass through for the gauges; How thick of a wire can you pass through there? Could be useful to pass a battery wire for an external Audio Amp.

2) Are oil changes like the 370Zed, where you have to remove a shield to access the oil drain plug?

3) Same as two, but for the gearbox drain plug. Looks fairly complicated to get access to the gearbox.

4) How easy is it to get to the diff drain plug?


Much Appreciated

1. Not quite external AMP size, but for sure 4 16g wires. But have no fear, next to it is a huge open rubber grommet that will easily support a 1G wire.

2. Yes, but its super easy. Just get a 10mm nut driver for a screw driver bit and you will get it off in about 20 sec.

3. You will need to remove the rear cover for this, but for sure this is a super easy 10mm nut driver on a screw driver job.

4. Piece of cake and not a hard task at all.

Originally Posted by blu_

I thought they ECU was supposedly unlocked :S

LOL

Originally Posted by feldy

Can you go into more detail about the camber bolts you tried. You said the wrx bolts fit but the h n p bolts were better. Do you have the part numbers for those? As I'm sure we will need something camber wise once star specs and rs3s get mounted. By the way this thread is full of win.

What doesn't allow the WRX part to work is the fact that the small hole isn't offset to one side. When you install the bolt, its actually a bit crooked through the strut. As others have mentioned, a smaller bolt will allow for some adjustment, but its not going to be very easy for your alignment shop to deal with. This is because they can't turn the bolt to adjust, they will need to push on the top of the tire then tighten the upper bolt. The H&R camber bolts fix this problem. We have been selling them for like 10 years now with ZERO problems.

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Very nice

I'm guessing that the Perrin crank pulley is undampened. Is this less of a potential concern for oil pump failure on a boxer as compared to an inline 4?

Yes its undampened.

Originally Posted by Prava

That was the most informative, organized, and well delivered post I've ever read. Thank you for being passionate just like the rest of the ft86club enthusiasts! Can't wait to be the janitor to all of your FR-S/BRZ mods!

Thanks!

Originally Posted by blu_

At least on subarus they all seem to have 0 in the front to promote safety understeer. Adjusting it is going to be a very easy way to make this cars turn in even better.

Yes, this will make for more front end grip which is good, but that promotes more oversteer. What is the best thing to do, is add -.5 degrees or -1 degree on both front and rear. That could keep the car handling similar but with more overall grip.

Originally Posted by blu_

yeah that gets beyond me. I'm not sure what the benefits and drawbacks of running no says and jacked up spring rates are besides making the car brutal as a dd.

That is why car manufactures run swaybars. Its a good way to keep the car level with out having crazy high overall spring rates. There a bunch of really high end cars that do not have swaybars, and some of the race cars i have seen use rather small ones only to help with minor tweaks.

Originally Posted by mufasis

Jeff what is the diameter and pitch thread of the front tow hook? Thanks! Cant wait to see what wonderful products you come out with.

You want me to tell you this, so a competitor can beat us to the punch with selling a similar part? LOL!
Its the same as all the Subarus, that should help you out.

Originally Posted by bimmerboy

awesome thread, thanks perrin!
any further analysis on the sound tube? curious what's in that housing...

The sound tube is nothing special. We have seen these before on cars and they are actually a small diaphragm in a canister. The idea is it acts like a speaker with the engine noise transmitting sound through to the cabin without the cabin being connected to the intake. The ones i have taken apart, even have a spring in the and daiphragm. I pressure tested one to 100psi and it didn't leak. So its not anything that hurts performance. We did a bunch of intake testing, and this did nothing to performance at all.

Originally Posted by v12

silly question is it easy to access fuel tank like insides

Yup under the back seat!

Originally Posted by Scooby South

Never ever had an issue on 5 Subaru's... all of them had Lightened pulleys.
a 2000 RS...Same 2000RS with a 2.0 Swap, 1997 Legacy GT, 2005 STi, and a 1999 Impreza Wagon...None of them had any problems...ever.. the 4 holes your referring to are where the Crank tool goes to be able to take the pulley off...there is no weight removal...Whoever posted that on Legacy GT was not well informed...AT ALL.. there is a rubber peice inside the pulley for NVH...but is not imperative that it be there....

honestly...all it is...is a drive pulley for assy stuff..all the timing stuff is behind the covers...

Bill

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Ehhh... not to pee in anyone's pudding, but I'm finding similar evidence of issues with light weight, undampened pulleys on subie boxers just as you can find for other motors.

For example...

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthrea...di-29425.html?

I only asked because I have zero experience with boxer motors... nevertheless, no reason to presume harmonics are not an issue.

Now, I'm not suggesting this is a colossally bad idea that may trash the engine, just that at minimum it would be nice to have confirmation that the crank position sensor won't throw misfires after a few hundred miles.

I err on the side of caution (or at least think about the gain vs risk ratio) as engines aint cheap... just a well intentioned heads up for fellow nervous nellies.

This is always a debate. We have time on our side for the EJ engines, and it will only be a matter of time before the FA/FB engines are in the same boat. Since the Subaru engines are very similar in most ways (better on the new FA/FB engines) then i think the same rule apply. Super light setups "could" throw a misfire, but removing 5-8lbs is probably just fine.

Originally Posted by pdreams

Hi,

Interesting take on the oil filter holder. Would anyone happen to know if a sandwich adaptor will fit into the filter housing?

I am planning to run some sensors and hoses for the gauges and oil cooler respectively by using a Greddy sandwich adaptor. I am concern if there would be enough space to close the bonnet after installing the adaptor seeing how tight it could already be. We typically would not have such an issue but this time round, the oil filter is actually facing upwards.

Look forward to some advice from anyone who is planning to do the same.

A normal version adapter will not work. But this is an item you might see from us soon!

Originally Posted by mattles

If I have to choose, light flywheel or light crank pully, Id do light flywheel. However Id like to see someone put an electronics package together so both can be installed without issues.

Looking at overall weight savings, flywheels for sure are better, but they cost about 4 times as much and cost at least $400 to install. Saving a decent amount of weight with our crank pulley for just over $100, and can be installed by almost anyone, makes this much more attractive item.

Look for some fun posts this week!

[serialk11r]

Is the mass on the crank pulley mostly shaven off the outer edge (like, what is the rotational inertia reduction looking like?)? Any diameter changes? Just curious, thanks!

[mufasis]

I honestly didn't see that you have one up already! ;P

[PERRIN_ADAM]

Originally Posted by mufasis

I honestly didn't see that you have one up already! ;P

We have all the BRZ / FR-S goodies going on the site in small chunks. CLICK HERE to land on the main page.

Thanks!!!

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by pdreams

Hi,

Interesting take on the oil filter holder. Would anyone happen to know if a sandwich adaptor will fit into the filter housing?

I am planning to run some sensors and hoses for the gauges and oil cooler respectively by using a Greddy sandwich adaptor. I am concern if there would be enough space to close the bonnet after installing the adaptor seeing how tight it could already be. We typically would not have such an issue but this time round, the oil filter is actually facing upwards.

Look forward to some advice from anyone who is planning to do the same.

You may have to find an adapter that's taller than normal to get over the lip. As far as hood clearance goes, you'll have PLENTY of room. There's probably 6"+ between the filter and hood.