BM TV: 86 Tuning Potential, comparison among non-tuned 86, TRD86 and HKS86 - Scion FR-S Forum | Subaru BRZ Forum | Toyota 86 GT 86 Forum | AS1 Forum

yajin · 05-17-2012, 09:56 PM

I just had a chance to watch the full version of the TV program of this one,

regarding the comparison among non-tuned 86, TRD86 and HKS86.

1. Legend of AE86.

2. AE86 first impression by Keiichi Tsuya......"Amazed by AE86. Well balanced.....even though just 1,600cc..."

3. Even at now 25 yrs after AE86, a lot of fans of AE86 enjoying to make your own tuned 86 w/ your flavor......Does this come down to new 86?

4. Tuning potential for the 86 (the title of this TV program)

5. The lap by the non-tuned 86 w/ standard tires

6. What if wearing hi-grip tires/17" ?

7. Tsuchiya: Gooooood. Feeling great! Very stable. Even a standard 86 is great!!!

8. Lap by 17" tire

9. Real time comparison between two settings (stock tire and hi-grip tire)

10. What if 18" hi-grip???

11: Tsuchiya: The tire width is now 235 from 215, so the traction is better, but a bit under-steering.....215 was more balanced well....

12: Lap by 18" tire

13. Real time comparison between two settings (17" and 18")

14: Tsuchiya: if you go more aggregatively on straight, 235 18' is better. If you like balanced driving in corners, 215 17" is preferable. Hmm, I will go with 235 18" for time attack!!!

15: Now, light tuned TRD 86....

16: TRD: Basically for street driving. Direct feeling of the car in steering and quick response are the important factors....

17:

18: Here, light tuned HKS 86...but it's automatic!

19: HKS: We are aiming for more fun driving this time as changing some "chemical" (?) We can enjoy the 86 even with AT.

20: 0-400m straight battle

#I'm a bit tired here...I'll work more later....sorry. orz

---
#ok,,a little bit updated.. 3:44am, 05/19/2012

21: Hattori: A bit additional weight. Will see how this affects time for zero-yon (#meaning 0-400m time attack).

22: Tsuchiya: W/ the non-tuned 86, I will go with 235 18" of which I can take an advantage for this zero-yon attack.

23: Kinoshita: This is well tuned, but still AT, which might be a big factor for this attack....But, I have a bit expectation on this AT car, you know, we are seeing the AT movement here and there....Hmm.. still saying this,,,but, AT adds more weights,,,,this is a big disadvantage..

24: start! and result

25: Kinoshita->Tsuchiya: Straight attach is meaningless, winding is everything....
Tsuchiya->Kinoshita: You are always all mouth

26: 2nd check: Gymkhana at TRM

---
Update at 1:00am, 05/21/2012 EDT.

Non-tuned 86 by Tsuchiya now with 17".

Just grip, not drift...

Next, TRD by Hattori. He go the first at the zero-yon, how is he going on the gymkhana...

Of course, no drift neither....

29: HKS by Kinoshita...Very brisk ! as if he is driving like MT...

Yes, he was the winner at the collage competition.

The result:
# I think the result this time for gymkhana should really depend on the drivers' skill.

Tsuchiya: Overall, totally different from the stock 86s we tried last time.
Hattori: Exactly, they are all brisk. Especially, The TRD got me very responsive steering feel because it is also very rigid.
Kinoshita: In that sense, I felt more "mellow" in the HKS. Even though it has disadvantage of its additional weight, the grip feeling is good.
Tsuchiya: As for me, don't underestimate the stock 86 w/ grip tires. The soft suspension is not so bad.
Now, we are heading to the circuit!

First, driving impression of the TRD in the circuit.

Wow! Totally different from the stock, non tuned 86. Direct feeling! Fast!

I got the rigid feeling from my steering.

This is already high-quality finished!!! Just in the market, isn't it?!?!

---
Last update, maybe. 9:35pm, 05/21/2012 EDT. The post is now too long, sorry.

How the HKS w/ AT is going at the circuite?

Kinoshita: The AT (gear change) response is not bad. Not so direct to the engine response, but the AT control is ok.

Kinoshita: After turning, it is well under load. This prevents from tail up, so even rough steering wouldn't disturb you much.

Light-tuned 86 battle!!! (The AT got an advantage)

Kinoshita: The AT will give you at least 1 sec delay....

Tsuchiya: The TRD is my competitor. If a manufacture tunes a car, they take everything seriously like aerodynamics. I need to be serious too.

Hattori: You bet the most cool one is the TRD. Not doubt. With a best record, it would live up to 86's name.

Tsuchiya: (Start) Shit!! Hattori-san is very good at starting. But, you cannot play a game with braking.

Kinoshita: The underbody (The TRD) is good. Not bad at corners.

Dri-Dri (Tsuchiya) is wearing the 18" Neova tires this time. How to reach Hattori's TRD?

The TRD is getting to the HKS.

Hattori: He (HKS) is blocking me!!! but I have more choices of the lines.

Dri-Dri is getting close too!

Tsuchiya: You see! The high-grip tires are really good!! No worries at all.

The TRD is trying to pass the HKS from outside at the last corner.

On the straight, the gear connection with MT is much better. Hattori is passing from inside.

Dri-dri is just behind them!

Now, get it.

Tsuchiya: hmmm..... under-steering... The TRD looks well balanced.

The TRD is extending its advantage over Tsuchiya

Tsuchiya: The aero parts on the TRD get a lot of advantages.

The result...The TRD is very stable. If you wear 18" tiers on the stock 86, you may need to consider tuning suspensions too. The HKS did its best!!!

Tsuchiya: I was thinking I could make fun of the HKS at the first lap, and try seriously for the TRD at the second lap. But I cannot.... The TRD was fast.

Hattori: Everything on The TRD is well balanced including the brakes. All consistent during the three laps.
Kinoshita: In that sense, the HKS is good too. Cannot beat on the straight, but durable at the corners for three laps over the time. If there were more laps left, I could have passed Tsuchiya-san??? Hahaha

Tsuchiya: Anyway, the 86 tuning is really profound!!

Hattori: Just tire change is fine. You can also change suspensions like the TRD and the HKS. One note here, the TRD changes the air cleaner too. This makes a lot of advantages. Even though the weight increased with more rigid body, today's result showed something.

Kinoshita: The base of the 86 is very solid so that you can tune it many ways.

Tsuchiya: The stock 86 hat its own flavor, but if you tune, you can get what you do. That's the 86.

86'd · 05-17-2012, 10:42 PM

But I wanted to see the 400m!!!!!

It's obvious that tires are going to have a pretty big impact on this car, at least acceleration wise and braking.

LivingLegend · 05-17-2012, 10:47 PM

can't wait to see the rest!!!!!!!!!!!!! So bored at school!!!

gtaqv · 05-18-2012, 11:41 AM

lots of cool info... Thanks!

igorot · 05-18-2012, 11:46 AM

oh no guys, wider tires causes understeer but faster time *GASP*. mind blown! lmao, for those that want to stay with 17 x 7 thats entirely up to you, but theres more of the car to be unlocked.

yajin · 05-19-2012, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86'd

But I wanted to see the 400m!!!!!

It's obvious that tires are going to have a pretty big impact on this car, at least acceleration wise and braking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivingLegend

can't wait to see the rest!!!!!!!!!!!!! So bored at school!!!

Just updated the only zero-yon part....will try more tomorrow....

Metabrz · 05-19-2012, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igorot

oh no guys, wider tires causes understeer but faster time *GASP*. mind blown! lmao, for those that want to stay with 17 x 7 thats entirely up to you, but theres more of the car to be unlocked.

Heads are spinning, dreams collapsing. Oh noes

Turbowned · 05-19-2012, 08:53 AM

B-b-b-ut, drifting doesn't make you go faster?

Big T · 05-19-2012, 09:29 AM

three seconds faster with just high grip tires? This completely changes the frs vs v6 mustang (with performance pack) thread.

chulooz · 05-19-2012, 10:22 AM

Nice seeing some concrete evidence of how much was left on the table with tires, not that Im too surprised. (3 sec is HUGE though)

Elson E · 05-19-2012, 11:25 AM

thanks for sharing! definately good info to know

dori. · 05-19-2012, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86'd

But I wanted to see the 400m!!!!!

It's obvious that tires are going to have a pretty big impact on this car, at least acceleration wise and braking.

I would hope that would be true for any car, as it is the only thing that connects the car to the road surface

yajin · 05-19-2012, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big T

three seconds faster with just high grip tires? This completely changes the frs vs v6 mustang (with performance pack) thread.

yes,
do your own (light) tuning like changing tires, and see a big gain.

this is another way of enjoying your 86/BRz

Gardus@Supersprint · 05-19-2012, 11:42 AM

3 second just swapping tyres? That really shows how sh*tty the stock tyres are. Why can't you just order it with 16" and winter tyres!?!

The difference between the cars is ridiculous with the same tyres.

ESBjiujitsu · 05-19-2012, 02:38 PM

you are my hero!!! so much great information!

Sasquachulator · 05-19-2012, 03:34 PM

Keep in mind:
the OEM tires are Parts Bin tires, meaning they most likely cost Toyota little to nothing to put onto the cars. (probably one easy way for them to save on costs for the car) Plus its the highest performing OEM tires in the company as far as i can tell that isnt on a Lexus. And its not just Prius Performance package, check out all the sport trimmed Toyota's (Sienna SE, Camry SE, Corolla XRS, etc), they're all equipped with Michelin Pilot Premacy's (i think there may also be another tire on them depending on where the car is located).

they do pretty well for stock tires i must say.

And remember, all OEM tires usually suck anyways.

Exhaust · 05-19-2012, 03:40 PM

I knew bigger wheels would be the way to go.... any joiners??

Gardus@Supersprint · 05-19-2012, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Keep in mind:
the OEM tires are Parts Bin tires, meaning they most likely cost Toyota little to nothing to put onto the cars. (probably one easy way for them to save on costs for the car) Plus its the highest performing OEM tires in the company as far as i can tell that isnt on a Lexus. And its not just Prius Performance package, check out all the sport trimmed Toyota's (Sienna SE, Camry SE, Corolla XRS, etc), they're all equipped with Michelin Pilot Premacy's (i think there may also be another tire on them depending on where the car is located).

they do pretty well for stock tires i must say.

And remember, all OEM tires usually suck anyways.

This is a sports car. I don't care what in the "Toyota parts bin". They can get Pilot Sport, Exaltos, or any other brand of tyres.
Re050A are pretty good and are OEM on many cars. Conti Sport Contact 3?
It's just a poor choice and they are paying the price with the GT86 getting poor laptimes on magazines.

SUB-FT86 · 05-19-2012, 05:09 PM

I can't believe the automatic gets to the 1/4 mile in 15.9 seconds. That's terrible.

dsgerbc · 05-19-2012, 06:51 PM

How on earth were they able to stick 18x8.5 +48 rims up front? I thought there was not enough clearance for those (and for 235-wide tires as well).

carbonBLUE · 05-19-2012, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86'd

But I wanted to see the 400m!!!!!

It's obvious that tires are going to have a pretty big impact on this car, at least acceleration wise and braking.

braking and cornering not really acceleration (would help 0-60 but not accelerating from a roll)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gardus

It's just a poor choice and they are paying the price with the GT86 getting poor laptimes on magazines.

car was built not based on numbers but on fun and the stock tires are more fun but will post slower lap times...

SUB-FT86 · 05-20-2012, 05:59 AM

What I don't understand is a IS250 with the same damn automatic weighs 3500 lbs, has 204 hp, and comes with 184 lb ft of torque yet it gets to the 0-400 in 15.6 seconds! Now the 86 auto is almost 700 lbs less weighty, the tranny is a slightly quicker shifter, and the torque difference is suppose to be a wash considering it only has 33 less torque with a 700 lb difference. I was expecting 0-400 for the auto in 15.1-2 seconds. The manual seems to be the best deal and the automatic sounds like less car for more money. And in the real world I believe the mpg is ultra close.

05-17-2012, 09:56 PM	#1
yajin Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Drives: CBS BRZ(12-), S13(95-97) Location: Mercer county, NJ Posts: 165 Thanks: 64 Thanked 148 Times in 40 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	BM TV: 86 Tuning Potential, comparison among non-tuned 86, TRD86 and HKS86 I just had a chance to watch the full version of the TV program of this one, TOYOTA 86 vs TRD 86 vs HKS 86 ãƒ™ã‚¹ãƒˆãƒ¢ãƒ¼ã‚¿ãƒ¼TV ãƒãƒ¥ãƒ¼ãƒ‹ãƒ³ã‚°ã®å¯èƒ½æ€§ï¼åœŸå±‹åœå¸‚ - YouTube regarding the comparison among non-tuned 86, TRD86 and HKS86. 1. Legend of AE86. 2. AE86 first impression by Keiichi Tsuya......"Amazed by AE86. Well balanced.....even though just 1,600cc..." 3. Even at now 25 yrs after AE86, a lot of fans of AE86 enjoying to make your own tuned 86 w/ your flavor......Does this come down to new 86? 4. Tuning potential for the 86 (the title of this TV program) 5. The lap by the non-tuned 86 w/ standard tires 6. What if wearing hi-grip tires/17" ? 7. Tsuchiya: Gooooood. Feeling great! Very stable. Even a standard 86 is great!!! 8. Lap by 17" tire 9. Real time comparison between two settings (stock tire and hi-grip tire) 10. What if 18" hi-grip??? 11: Tsuchiya: The tire width is now 235 from 215, so the traction is better, but a bit under-steering.....215 was more balanced well.... 12: Lap by 18" tire 13. Real time comparison between two settings (17" and 18") 14: Tsuchiya: if you go more aggregatively on straight, 235 18' is better. If you like balanced driving in corners, 215 17" is preferable. Hmm, I will go with 235 18" for time attack!!! 15: Now, light tuned TRD 86.... 16: TRD: Basically for street driving. Direct feeling of the car in steering and quick response are the important factors.... 17: 18: Here, light tuned HKS 86...but it's automatic! 19: HKS: We are aiming for more fun driving this time as changing some "chemical" (?) We can enjoy the 86 even with AT. 20: 0-400m straight battle #I'm a bit tired here...I'll work more later....sorry. orz --- #ok,,a little bit updated.. 3:44am, 05/19/2012 21: Hattori: A bit additional weight. Will see how this affects time for zero-yon (#meaning 0-400m time attack). 22: Tsuchiya: W/ the non-tuned 86, I will go with 235 18" of which I can take an advantage for this zero-yon attack. 23: Kinoshita: This is well tuned, but still AT, which might be a big factor for this attack....But, I have a bit expectation on this AT car, you know, we are seeing the AT movement here and there....Hmm.. still saying this,,,but, AT adds more weights,,,,this is a big disadvantage.. 24: start! and result 25: Kinoshita->Tsuchiya: Straight attach is meaningless, winding is everything.... Tsuchiya->Kinoshita: You are always all mouth 26: 2nd check: Gymkhana at TRM --- Update at 1:00am, 05/21/2012 EDT. Non-tuned 86 by Tsuchiya now with 17". Just grip, not drift... Next, TRD by Hattori. He go the first at the zero-yon, how is he going on the gymkhana... Of course, no drift neither.... 29: HKS by Kinoshita...Very brisk ! as if he is driving like MT... Yes, he was the winner at the collage competition. The result: # I think the result this time for gymkhana should really depend on the drivers' skill. Tsuchiya: Overall, totally different from the stock 86s we tried last time. Hattori: Exactly, they are all brisk. Especially, The TRD got me very responsive steering feel because it is also very rigid. Kinoshita: In that sense, I felt more "mellow" in the HKS. Even though it has disadvantage of its additional weight, the grip feeling is good. Tsuchiya: As for me, don't underestimate the stock 86 w/ grip tires. The soft suspension is not so bad. Now, we are heading to the circuit! First, driving impression of the TRD in the circuit. Wow! Totally different from the stock, non tuned 86. Direct feeling! Fast! I got the rigid feeling from my steering. This is already high-quality finished!!! Just in the market, isn't it?!?! --- Last update, maybe. 9:35pm, 05/21/2012 EDT. The post is now too long, sorry. How the HKS w/ AT is going at the circuite? Kinoshita: The AT (gear change) response is not bad. Not so direct to the engine response, but the AT control is ok. Kinoshita: After turning, it is well under load. This prevents from tail up, so even rough steering wouldn't disturb you much. Light-tuned 86 battle!!! (The AT got an advantage) Kinoshita: The AT will give you at least 1 sec delay.... Tsuchiya: The TRD is my competitor. If a manufacture tunes a car, they take everything seriously like aerodynamics. I need to be serious too. Hattori: You bet the most cool one is the TRD. Not doubt. With a best record, it would live up to 86's name. Tsuchiya: (Start) Shit!! Hattori-san is very good at starting. But, you cannot play a game with braking. Kinoshita: The underbody (The TRD) is good. Not bad at corners. Dri-Dri (Tsuchiya) is wearing the 18" Neova tires this time. How to reach Hattori's TRD? The TRD is getting to the HKS. Hattori: He (HKS) is blocking me!!! but I have more choices of the lines. Dri-Dri is getting close too! Tsuchiya: You see! The high-grip tires are really good!! No worries at all. The TRD is trying to pass the HKS from outside at the last corner. On the straight, the gear connection with MT is much better. Hattori is passing from inside. Dri-dri is just behind them! Now, get it. Tsuchiya: hmmm..... under-steering... The TRD looks well balanced. The TRD is extending its advantage over Tsuchiya Tsuchiya: The aero parts on the TRD get a lot of advantages. The result...The TRD is very stable. If you wear 18" tiers on the stock 86, you may need to consider tuning suspensions too. The HKS did its best!!! Tsuchiya: I was thinking I could make fun of the HKS at the first lap, and try seriously for the TRD at the second lap. But I cannot.... The TRD was fast. Hattori: Everything on The TRD is well balanced including the brakes. All consistent during the three laps. Kinoshita: In that sense, the HKS is good too. Cannot beat on the straight, but durable at the corners for three laps over the time. If there were more laps left, I could have passed Tsuchiya-san??? Hahaha Tsuchiya: Anyway, the 86 tuning is really profound!! Hattori: Just tire change is fine. You can also change suspensions like the TRD and the HKS. One note here, the TRD changes the air cleaner too. This makes a lot of advantages. Even though the weight increased with more rigid body, today's result showed something. Kinoshita: The base of the 86 is very solid so that you can tune it many ways. Tsuchiya: The stock 86 hat its own flavor, but if you tune, you can get what you do. That's the 86. Last edited by yajin; 05-21-2012 at 08:35 PM.*

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
8 different GT5 Nordschleife leaderboards with the Toyota GT86 (stock, tuned, drift)	RaceR	Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions	56	11-21-2012 08:56 PM
Used tuned 86!	STJ	Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum	21	05-02-2012 09:42 PM
Scumbag potential presidents	Giccin	Off-Topic Lounge	170	03-02-2012 11:43 AM
Official 86 GT Modded/Tuned track times. GT5	PAImportTuner	Photos, Videos, Wallpapers, Gallery Forum	3	12-26-2011 12:30 AM
Weight loss potential?	SevenTenSplit	Engine, Exhaust, Transmission, ECU	12	12-10-2011 01:16 PM

05-17-2012, 10:42 PM	#2
86'd Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Drives: 2012 WRX Sedan Location: Los Angeles Posts: 511 Thanks: 25 Thanked 91 Times in 53 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	But I wanted to see the 400m!!!!! It's obvious that tires are going to have a pretty big impact on this car, at least acceleration wise and braking.

05-17-2012, 10:47 PM	#3
LivingLegend Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Drives: 1994 Toyota Tercel Location: Hillsboro Posts: 232 Thanks: 284 Thanked 62 Times in 39 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	can't wait to see the rest!!!!!!!!!!!!! So bored at school!!!

05-18-2012, 11:41 AM	#4
gtaqv Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Drives: Alfa Romeo Location: Portugal Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	lots of cool info... Thanks!

05-18-2012, 11:46 AM	#5
igorot Sneakerhead Join Date: Nov 2011 Drives: 2003 Honda Civic Si Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 328 Thanks: 16 Thanked 49 Times in 30 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	oh no guys, wider tires causes understeer but faster time GASP. mind blown! lmao, for those that want to stay with 17 x 7 thats entirely up to you, but theres more of the car to be unlocked.

05-19-2012, 09:29 AM	#9
Big T Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Drives: future FR-S Location: Temple TX Posts: 52 Thanks: 1 Thanked 10 Times in 8 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	three seconds faster with just high grip tires? This completely changes the frs vs v6 mustang (with performance pack) thread.

05-19-2012, 10:22 AM	#10
chulooz Registered user Join Date: Feb 2010 Drives: 99 impreza coupe Location: Washington DC/ Derby CT Posts: 1,407 Thanks: 246 Thanked 237 Times in 137 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Nice seeing some concrete evidence of how much was left on the table with tires, not that Im too surprised. (3 sec is HUGE though)

05-19-2012, 11:25 AM	#11
Elson E Member Join Date: May 2012 Drives: 2wheels & 4wheels Location: Sunny SoCal Posts: 14 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	thanks for sharing! definately good info to know

05-19-2012, 11:42 AM	#14
Gardus@Supersprint Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Drives: Clio TCE Location: Mantova - Italy Posts: 569 Thanks: 17 Thanked 130 Times in 55 Posts Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	3 second just swapping tyres? That really shows how sh*tty the stock tyres are. Why can't you just order it with 16" and winter tyres!?! The difference between the cars is ridiculous with the same tyres.

05-19-2012, 03:34 PM	#16
Sasquachulator Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Drives: 2006 Toyota Corolla XRS Location: Calgary Posts: 605 Thanks: 0 Thanked 64 Times in 41 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Keep in mind: the OEM tires are Parts Bin tires, meaning they most likely cost Toyota little to nothing to put onto the cars. (probably one easy way for them to save on costs for the car) Plus its the highest performing OEM tires in the company as far as i can tell that isnt on a Lexus. And its not just Prius Performance package, check out all the sport trimmed Toyota's (Sienna SE, Camry SE, Corolla XRS, etc), they're all equipped with Michelin Pilot Premacy's (i think there may also be another tire on them depending on where the car is located). they do pretty well for stock tires i must say. And remember, all OEM tires usually suck anyways.

05-19-2012, 05:09 PM	#19
SUB-FT86 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Drives: 06 G35 Coupe Sport Location: Atlanta, Ga Posts: 2,462 Thanks: 36 Thanked 158 Times in 95 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I can't believe the automatic gets to the 1/4 mile in 15.9 seconds. That's terrible.

User Name		Remember Me?
Password

05-19-2012, 06:51 PM	#20
dsgerbc Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Drives: WRB BRZ, STI on order Location: A2, MI Posts: 1,470 Thanks: 116 Thanked 231 Times in 146 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	How on earth were they able to stick 18x8.5 +48 rims up front? I thought there was not enough clearance for those (and for 235-wide tires as well).

05-20-2012, 05:59 AM	#22
SUB-FT86 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Drives: 06 G35 Coupe Sport Location: Atlanta, Ga Posts: 2,462 Thanks: 36 Thanked 158 Times in 95 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	What I don't understand is a IS250 with the same damn automatic weighs 3500 lbs, has 204 hp, and comes with 184 lb ft of torque yet it gets to the 0-400 in 15.6 seconds! Now the 86 auto is almost 700 lbs less weighty, the tranny is a slightly quicker shifter, and the torque difference is suppose to be a wash considering it only has 33 less torque with a 700 lb difference. I was expecting 0-400 for the auto in 15.1-2 seconds. The manual seems to be the best deal and the automatic sounds like less car for more money. And in the real world I believe the mpg is ultra close.