KW V3 Coilovers Released for FR-S / BRZ

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by SAP

No, I was just think to myself.
How can KW possibly think that the materials and labor expense in 10 sets of springs be equel to the materials and labor expense of a complete GT86/BRZ?
10% the cost of the entire car?

That's kind of a pointless arguement. There are $6k shocks out there for cars that cost anywhere from $1k used to $100k+. The value of the vehicle doesn't define the R&D, parts cost, labor cost, overhead costs and profit for aftermarket parts.

[Sully]

Besides which, while they may or may not be unreasonably priced for their quality They're well within the norm if you compare their prices against their competitors.

And hell, people pay $2k for a single motorcycle shock/spring. :P

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by RYU

It's just sometimes annoying to see the "Group Think" mentality from people who don't know what they're buying but see people on forums rave about a product to try to validate their $2400 purchase.

If you're going to bust out the psychology, be correct. It's not groupthink, it's actually a form of dissonance reduction in cognitive dissonance.

[RYU]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

That's kind of a pointless arguement. There are $6k shocks out there for cars that cost anywhere from $1k used to $100k+. The value of the vehicle doesn't define the R&D, parts cost, labor cost, overhead costs and profit for aftermarket parts.

I think saying it's pointless is kind of harsh...

He does bring up a good point in that for a relatively cheap car spending 10% of the cars value on just a set of coilovers sort of makes you think twice. It certainly makes me think twice about just keeping the OEM set in there or go on the cheap and get a set of Koni or Bilsteins.

[Hanakuso]

Originally Posted by SAP

No, I was just think to myself.
How can KW possibly think that the materials and labor expense in 10 sets of springs be equel to the materials and labor expense of a complete GT86/BRZ?
10% the cost of the entire car?

$2k range isn't asking much for coilovers that actually improve the handling. IMO it's best to stick with high quality suspension items or stay with OEM. I never understood why people would just use lowering springs on cars with handling as there high selling point

[RYU]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

If you're going to bust out the psychology, be correct. It's not groupthink, it's actually a form of dissonance reduction in cognitive dissonance.

say what Willis?

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by RYU

say what Willis?

People validating their purchases by raving about them is not groupthink, it's a reduction strategy when people experience cognitive dissonance. Groupthink is the tendency for groups to prioritize group agreement over actually getting things done, which is not what you described.

[RYU]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

People validating their purchases by raving about them is not groupthink, it's a reduction strategy when people experience cognitive dissonance. Groupthink is the tendency for groups to prioritize group agreement over actually getting things done, which is not what you described.

at the risk of derailing this thread even further...what would you recommend is the proper terminology for what I described?

I suppose there's a better way to say "a form of dissonance reduction in cognitive dissonance"

[Hanakuso]

Originally Posted by RYU

at the risk of derailing this thread even further...what would you recommend is the proper terminology for what I described?

I suppose there's a better way to say "a form of dissonance reduction in cognitive dissonance"

Placebo?

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by RYU

at the risk of derailing this thread even further...what would you recommend is the proper terminology for what I described?

I suppose there's a better way to say "a form of dissonance reduction in cognitive dissonance"

It can be considered a type of effort-justification.

Originally Posted by Hanakuso

Placebo?

No, in the placebo effect you would tell a person that you changed to Brand X coilovers, but in reality you still have the stockers. Said person believes car to perform better than it did, despite nothing actually having been changed.

[RYU]

I'm certainly no psychology expert but I hope my point came across as intended.

[Hanakuso]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

No, in the placebo effect you would tell a person that you changed to Brand X coilovers, but in reality you still have the stockers. Said person believes car to perform better than it did, despite nothing actually having been changed.

I'm looking at it differently or maybe there's a difference between medical and psych "placebo" term. If you read on some forums Brand X coilovers improves handling but in fact it doesn't. Said person still believes there car handles better.

If the person knows the car handles worse but still goes on forums to say it handles better, I think the correct term is BSer

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Hanakuso

I'm looking at it differently or maybe there's a difference between medical and psych "placebo" term. If you read on some forums Brand X coilovers improves handling but in fact it doesn't. Said person still believes there car handles better.

If the person knows the car handles worse but still goes on forums to say it handles better, I think the correct term is BSer

Still cognitive dissonance. They're experiencing dissonance between the perceived value/performance and what people think of the coilovers (read: junk).

[RYU]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

It can be considered a type of effort-justification.

Sorry, this just became interesting. The desire to want to purchase coilovers (in my poorly stated example) by bench racers on forums is what I originally associated with Groupthink. These are folks who blindly read reviews from owners/writers who are displaying a type of effort justification and it turns out to be a vicious snowball of propaganda (in a worse case scenario). So in effect I was talking about two phenomenons in my poorly stated example. Correct me if i'm wrong...

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by RYU

Sorry, this just became interesting. The desire to want to purchase coilovers (in my poorly stated example) by bench racers on forums is what I originally associated with Groupthink. These are folks who blindly read reviews from owners/writers who are displaying a type of effort justification and it turns out to be a vicious snowball of propaganda (in a worse case scenario). So in effect I was talking about two phenomenons in my poorly stated example. Correct me if i'm wrong...

THAT is more precise, but only IF the purchaser believes themselves to be a part of the same group as the bench racers. Otherwise, it's just persuasion.

It does seem you were talking about two phenomena, albeit without proper clarity.

[koyv90]

hope progress makes coilovers they are usually good and make stock quality coilovers

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by RYU

I think saying it's pointless is kind of harsh...

He does bring up a good point in that for a relatively cheap car spending 10% of the cars value on just a set of coilovers sort of makes you think twice. It certainly makes me think twice about just keeping the OEM set in there or go on the cheap and get a set of Koni or Bilsteins.

I don't think it was harsh at all. It's factual information. People put penske's on 86 CRXes, the value of an 86 CRX has absolutely nothing to do with the cost of Penske race shocks.

I'm not calling him cheap or stupid or anything else. If he doesn't want to spend 2k (or whatever) on a specific set of threaded body coilovers that's fine. If he doesn't want to spend more than $500, or $1000, or whatever, that's fine too, but it doesn't make parts outside of what he considers acceptable to be overpriced "just because".

His point was that they should be priced cheaper, just because of the cost of a BRZ/FRS, but the two are simply not related in any way. I would *never* pick parts based on a "maximum" % of my cars value, I pick my parts on what I need/want to accomplish, it costs whatever it costs. If I can't afford it I'll wait until I can, and if there are two equal parts in all regards that meet my needs I'll get the cheaper one (SS brakelines are a very good example of this).

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

That's kind of a pointless arguement. There are $6k shocks out there for cars that cost anywhere from $1k used to $100k+. The value of the vehicle doesn't define the R&D, parts cost, labor cost, overhead costs and profit for aftermarket parts.

Unless it's for exotics.

$900 value exhaust for a Ferrari = $3000

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Unless it's for exotics.

$900 value exhaust for a Ferrari = $3000

I'll definately agree there.

I meant more on the opposite side. KW V3s SRP are basically about the same so this isn't a case of "Ferrari Tax"

[ZetaVI]

Good stuff.

[Chupacabra]

I've owned KW Variant 2's (Damping Adjustment only) for my tC for the past 3 years. The ride is fantastic on the street, but not as AutoX oriented as Tein's. My reason for buying them was the testing standards and longevity in varied climates because of shock material. Since I live where I live, the KW's represented the best purchase. I paid more than the comparable coilover at the time (Tein SS) but after 3 years, I'm not disappointed. The only negative on the KW's would be the light surface rust on the springs. I can expect this though because MN uses salt on the roads.

But, I drive a tC AKA Camry front- Celica Ass so coilovers are more for looks on cars like mine.

From an owner's perspective, the KW V3's they're offering for us are most likely going to be the best balance between road and occasional track use.

[dsgerbc]

20mm minimum drop? I'll pass. I'd be looking for something with stiffer springs/better adjustable dampers that would make wider stickier tires a possibility (up front) for track days, while keeping ride height a lot closer to stock for DD.