BRZ vs Renault Megane 265 Trophy

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

It proves (much to my purist hater self) that a FWD can go faster for cheaper. But. I. still. don't. give. a. f**k. about. FWD. So I'll spend more $$, put a supercharger and some sticky tires on the BRZ, and go out and have fun with the tail out! Keep the torque-steer, thank you very much.

i think this is the first time anyone has admitted that this may not be the best car ever but simply the one they want. thanks

[cossey]

Given that the Megane isn't sold in NA I expect that none of you have driven one, I on the other hand have driven both the current and previous generation extensively. They are probably the best all round FWD cars ever made, the Clio RS200 and the Integra DC2 have slightly purer chassis but the extra power and torque of the turbo puts the Megane ahead over all. They are seriously fun cars that are capable of truly ridiculous amounts of sideways action if you want.

Renault Megane Drift

All of that is lift off oversteer not using the e brake.
The fact that they are quicker round the Nordschleife than a Cayman S show that they are also insanely quick for the money.
For Europe the Megane would certainly be on the list for anyone looking for a fun sporty car around the GT86/BRZ price point.

John Barker is an ex vehichle dynamics engineer and still does consulting to the industry, he has driven the N24 in an Audi Factory R8 and near enough every sports car for the last 20 years as one of the world's most respected motoring journalists.

If you look at the EVO review as a whole then a constant pattern emerges
1. They were expecting a lot from this car and therefore it has been partially reviewed against the hype.
2. Subaru gave them an AT when they had asked for a MT (CAR magazine got a MT BRZ and have said a lot of similar things to EVO btw) and the AT has sub optimal gear ratios compare to the MT
3. They mention repeatedly that it corners very flat, the steering is good and it is very agile

What they complain about is that it is fun, it gets called aloof and Barker even mentions that aprt from chucking it into a very fast corner you would not know it was RWD.

All of this can be fixed (putting the Toyota suspension on, a bit more power possibly from a supercharger and changing the tyres) but that is not what the review was about.

I am still changing my Megane for one (all be it a GT86 over the BRZ) as I think with some tweaks it will be a great car and I fancy a change from hot hatches but don't be a bigot and dismiss bad review just because you don't like what they say. Also do pass up the opportunity to drive either the Megane or the Clio if you get the chance they both should be on the top 20 list for any serious car enthusiast to drive in their lives just to show what can be done with the hot hatch formula.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by cossey

They are seriously fun cars that are capable of truly ridiculous amounts of sideways action if you want.

That was rather lame video...just saying. Bunch of powersliding...to imitate what a RWD car actually does..."drift".

As for the EVO, I was a little confused why they were testing the Auto as well. It was hard to understand what they were mumbling under their breathe at the end. Didn't seem very professionally put together type review. From what I was understanding though, it seem like he was talking about the understeer. Traction Control?

This comparison by EVO gets a "D -"

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

That was rather lame video...just saying. Bunch of powersliding...to imitate what a RWD car actually does..."drift".

As for the EVO, I was a little confused why they were testing the Auto as well. It was hard to understand what they were mumbling under their breathe at the end. Didn't seem very professionally put together type review. From what I was understanding though, it seem like he was talking about the understeer. Traction Control?

This comparison by EVO gets a "D -"

being in control of a FWD power sliding as precisely like that without an ebrake is actually very hard to do, you can only make adjustments with your steering wheel and entry speed and thats about it, what they are doing is a lot harder than rwd drifting...

[Capt Canuck]

cossey: as good as the previous gen RS Megane is, it has to have one of the sloppiest, vaguest gearboxes around for a sporty car.

By all accounts that won't be something you'll have to contend with, in the BRZ/GT86 :-)

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by carbonBLUE

being in control of a FWD power sliding as precisely like that without an ebrake is actually very hard to do, you can only make adjustments with your steering wheel and entry speed and thats about it, what they are doing is a lot harder than rwd drifting...

Does not change my mind that its lame.

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

Does not change my mind that its lame.

well both rwd and fwd cars can "snapoversteer" lol just messin with ya!

[Capt Canuck]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

That was rather lame video...just saying. Bunch of powersliding...to imitate what a RWD car actually does..."drift".

So when a FWD oversteers it's power sliding and when a RWD car oversteers it's drifting?

[cossey]

Originally Posted by Capt Canuck

cossey: as good as the previous gen RS Megane is, it has to have one of the sloppiest, vaguest gearboxes around for a sporty car.

By all accounts that won't be something you'll have to contend with, in the BRZ/GT86 :-)

It is pretty bad especially as it is quite narrow left ti right but with a very long forwards to back movement. There is a $10 fix that involves moving the cable mounting point that is very popular to fix this.

I am hoping the Toyobaru is much better though, and the reviews (inc EVO ) seem to suggest that it is.

[Capt Canuck]

Ah right, I did not realise there was a fix. I had a lengthy test drive in the F1 and was able to drive an R26 and 175 diesel at RSUK trackdays and was really disappointed by it.

Really was the only thing letting it down. Especially with how easy it is to safely boost the power on those things, they make for a great value for money :-)

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by Capt Canuck

So when a FWD oversteers it's power sliding and when a RWD car oversteers it's drifting?

Oversteer is oversteer, don't matter what the layout is. Drifting isn't simply "oversteering". In that video they were making the FWD car oversteer on purpose...I.E. lame.

Pretty sure..this isn't just "oversteering".

FormulaD Final Fight Top 16 Ken Gushi vs Dai Yoshijara - YouTube

But hey, if you think it was cool, fine by me. I just think it was lame.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

Oversteer is oversteer, don't matter what the layout is. Drifting isn't simply "oversteering". In that video they were making the FWD car oversteer on purpose...I.E. lame.

Pretty sure..this isn't just "oversteering".

FormulaD Final Fight Top 16 Ken Gushi vs Dai Yoshijara - YouTube


But hey, if you think it was cool, fine by me. I just think it was lame.

What's the difference between drift and over steer?

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by fatoni

What's the difference between drift and over steer?

Imo.....intention and length of time performed...when you are talking RWD. But FWD is dragging the rear, not being propelled by it. You are "driving" the car with the throttle (rwd), not dragging the rest of the car and controlling angle with weight transfers (fwd). I've seen the BMI video, and the Honda hatch one imitating the drift. Albeit impressive, it still can not accomplish any drifting where its necessary to drive the car with the throttle.

Oversteer is usually involved with weight transfer ( be it intented or unintended) and drift is usually involved with being "driven" with the throttle (often intended). That's my take on it.

[86'd]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i think this is the first time anyone has admitted that this may not be the best car ever but simply the one they want. thanks

I think there are more of us out there than you think.

The Renault may be a better car on paper and even on the track (just like the mustang) but it ain't got what I want.

It is very strange that EVO is so blah about the car.

Given the fact that most all other reviews favor the car I think their contrarian opinion says more about them than it does the BRZ.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

Imo.....intention and length of time performed...when you are talking RWD. But FWD is dragging the rear, not being propelled by it. You are "driving" the car with the throttle (rwd), not dragging the rest of the car and controlling angle with weight transfers (fwd). I've seen the BMI video, and the Honda hatch one imitating the drift. Albeit impressive, it still can not accomplish any drifting where its necessary to drive the car with the throttle.

Oversteer is usually involved with weight transfer ( be it intented or unintended) and drift is usually involved with being "driven" with the throttle (often intended). That's my take on it.

So nothing about tire slip angles in your description?

Drifting has been used in performance driving long before the term got corrupted by a bunch of style-obsessed smoke monkeys.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by 86'd

I think there are more of us out there than you think.

The Renault may be a better car on paper and even on the track (just like the mustang) but it ain't got what I want.

It is very strange that EVO is so blah about the car.

Given the fact that most all other reviews favor the car I think their contrarian opinion says more about them than it does the BRZ.

im sure there are a bunch of you, err us, but im surprised someone posted something like that. i think if it came down to it i would go for the megane but im pretty sure that its just the "not in america" factor since the speed3, focus st and the host of stupid fast fwd cars dont appeal to me like the brz does

[Capt Canuck]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

Oversteer is oversteer, don't matter what the layout is. Drifting isn't simply "oversteering". In that video they were making the FWD car oversteer on purpose...I.E. lame.

Pretty sure..this isn't just "oversteering".

FormulaD Final Fight Top 16 Ken Gushi vs Dai Yoshijara - YouTube

But hey, if you think it was cool, fine by me. I just think it was lame.

What's going on in this FormulaD video you linked? Is that oversteering occuring by accident? I am pretty all I see is two cars oversteering on purpose, boringly producing lots of smoke.
It is a pretty good example of something lame though

[Lasse]

Renault Megane 265 Trophy is a wonderful car, albeit ugly as hell. But people are forgetting that those things have very high running costs! GT86/BRZ gives you very unique mix of affordability, great handling, decent performance, sport car look, great quality and low running costs. Megane is very fast, but overall lacks few of those things what i listed. Great car, but not that great that i would buy it over GT86.

BTW, Clio 200 is also very fast and great handling car. It was as fast as Ford Focus RS in track but handled much better!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae4RqTW5UDU

[carbonBLUE]

FWD Drifting - YouTube

looks like drifting.... but isnt drifting...

[DIG1992]

I though this was a good vid to show the performance of the Megane vs boxster since the fr-s has a lower center of gravity than a cayman

Fifth Gear - Focus Rs vs Megane 250 vs Scirocco R - YouTube

skip to 3:32

[NESW20]

i'd like to see the same cars on track in the dry. it's not necessarily the easiest thing to drive a mid-engine car in wet conditions. i think they both would have made fewer mistakes.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by Dimman

So nothing about tire slip angles in your description?

Drifting has been used in performance driving long before the term got corrupted by a bunch of style-obsessed smoke monkeys.

It's an internet forum. Didn't realize a Dissertation was needed to explain my opinion.

Originally Posted by Capt Canuck

What's going on in this FormulaD video you linked? Is that oversteering occuring by accident? I am pretty all I see is two cars oversteering on purpose, boringly producing lots of smoke.
It is a pretty good example of something lame though

Awesome..