FA20 Engine Oiling, Bearings, and Starvation

[Dipstik-sportech]

Dog engagement will help with high rpm shifting but not the gear teeth shearing off at high loads, the gears are just too small.

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by Dipstik-sportech

Dog engagement will help with high rpm shifting but not the gear teeth shearing off at high loads, the gears are just too small.

Ultimately my concern with trying to upgrade the OEM Aisin is that we are physically limited by the gear size. There is only so much you can do with materials alone and maybe going straight cut teeth to lessen the spreading forces. I'm pretty confident for those looking for a reliable 500+ a different box is the answer.

I think the automatic guys could be the lucky ones. Maybe I should swap one of those in

[spitfire481]

Originally Posted by Dipstik-sportech

Dog engagement will help with high rpm shifting but not the gear teeth shearing off at high loads, the gears are just too small.

Ditching the factory synchro design could allow the gears to be wider which would spread the load out better. I believe that's what they did with the s2000 dog box setup. They seem to hold near 1000hp. Ditching 6th would make more shaft space

[spitfire481]

Either way, hopefully they can make something work and I'll turn it up to 600whp and start beating the living hell out of it lol

[stonenewt]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

I think the automatic guys could be the lucky ones. Maybe I should swap one of those in

Why do you say that?

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by stonenewt

Why do you say that?

Because I don't think anyone has broken one and I know there are a few high HP ones out there.

[Lunatic]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

Ultimately my concern with trying to upgrade the OEM Aisin is that we are physically limited by the gear size. There is only so much you can do with materials alone and maybe going straight cut teeth to lessen the spreading forces. I'm pretty confident for those looking for a reliable 500+ a different box is the answer.

I think the automatic guys could be the lucky ones. Maybe I should swap one of those in

I love my automatic, esp on the track. But seriously, how strong are they?

[Tye300]

^want to find out too!

[Reaper]

400+ needs a few minor parts to prevent slipping. But no one has broken one.

[Caspeed]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

Ha ha thanks but anyone can say, hey these guys are great and I use them for my 800hp V8 bla bla bla so you should have them build for FA20. It meas absolutely zero on this platform how good you are at building other engines. I don't think anyone has any doubt we are the only ones pushing these engine to the point of these failures and actually coming up with solutions. If you aren't out there testing and doing R&D racing this platform, how can you say you know how to make it relaible? How do you even know what is going to fail and when? Oh you read it on ft86club and the source was who? Yeah exactly!

We use Pauter rods in our FA builds currently and I think they are excellent rods but do I think they are better than Carrillo Pro H Beams? No but it's not always the point to use a rod that is way more than you need when you can get nearly as good a rod for hundreds less and you can use your savings towards other engine mods we do that are way more important than having a 1000 hp capable rod.

We often build 800+ hp Subaru engines and for those clients we do suggest key upgrades to our standard Pro Comp builds. Engine building is not following the recipe on the back of a box, it's not about how "big" your company is, it's about designing a blueprint to build your engines to that you have proven can handle serious racing abuse in a winning package. It's only at that point can you look your client's in the eye and say, "this is exactly what you need to reliable get here because we've done it an these parts fail, these need to be modified, and these parts have proven themselves in our testing."

We are always the source of our own information and r&d! We speak truth and facts, not hearsay!

I agree with everything you say. And, as this thread shows it's all about development. There is no 1 best answer but rather many different approaches to solving problems and each one has their benefits and liabilities. The trick is finding the best combination for your application.

My background is not 800 bhp V8s. But normally aspirated Boxer engines. So a small bit of my experience might transfer over. But each engine platform is different.

Keep up the good work.

[Dezoris]

Posting this here

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDfFJ5s6IDg"]FRS - BRZ Oil Pressure and Temperature Tech FA20 - YouTube[/ame]


STREET TEMPS
0W20 Redline

0w20 Redline 185F @ 800RPM 10PSI Oil Pressure
0w20 Redline 185F @ 2000RPM 35PSI Oil Pressure
0w20 Redline 185F @ 4000RPM 54PSI Oil Pressure
0w20 Redline 185F @ 7000RPM 65PSI Oil Pressure

10W30 Redline

10w30 Redline 185F @ 800RPM 19PSI Oil Pressure
10w30 Redline 185F @ 2000RPM 51PSI Oil Pressure
10w30 Redline 185F @ 4000RPM 65PSI Oil Pressure
10w30 Redline 185F @ 7000RPM 83PSI Oil Pressure

10W40 Redline

10w40 Redline 185F @ 800RPM 25PSI Oil Pressure
10w40 Redline 185F @ 2000RPM 64PSI Oil Pressure
10w40 Redline 185F @ 4000RPM 78PSI Oil Pressure
10w40 Redline 185F @ 7000RPM 91PSI Oil Pressure


TRACK TEMPS AFTER 9 LAPS @ 1 Minute 15 Seconds Per Lap
0W20 Redline

0w20 Redline 225F @ 800RPM 7PSI Oil Pressure
0w20 Redline 225F @ 2000RPM 30PSI Oil Pressure
0w20 Redline 225F @ 4000RPM 48PSI Oil Pressure
0w20 Redline 225F @ 7000RPM 43PSI Oil Pressure


10W30 Redline

10w30 Redline 245F @ 800RPM 7PSI Oil Pressure
10w30 Redline 245F @ 2000RPM 35PSI Oil Pressure
10w30 Redline 245F @ 4000RPM 52PSI Oil Pressure
10w30 Redline 245F @ 7000RPM 46PSI Oil Pressure

10W40 Redline (12 Laps)

10w40 Redline 265F @ 800RPM 8PSI Oil Pressure
10w40 Redline 265F @ 2000RPM 31PSI Oil Pressure
10w40 Redline 265F @ 4000RPM 55PSI Oil Pressure
10w40 Redline 265F @ 7000RPM 45PSI Oil Pressure:

[Luckrider]

@Dezoris, was that with or without your oil cooler and was this supercharged or NA?

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by Luckrider

@Dezoris, was that with or without your oil cooler and was this supercharged or NA?

0w20 was tested with and without FI. Very similar results as pressures are relative to oil temps.

All other results are with oil cooler and FI.

[MINOCIN]

@Dezoris thanks for the vid and info. I especially appreciate you showing where and how you wired up your oil pressure gauge, but where are you getting the oil temps from? Are you getting oil temps from the ECU using a data logger or did you install a temp sensor too?

I ask because I have a temp sensor located on a sandwich plate between the oil filter and my oil cooler sandwich plate. When comparing oil temps between the sandwich plate temp sensor and the temps pulled from the data logger I get about a 20F to 40F temp difference, where the temp readings from the data logger are cooler. Unfortunately I'm not exactly sure what the temp difference is because my oil temp gauge only has colored bars instead of precise values. I'm using the Torque android app as my data logger to pull oil temps from the ECU.

When using the data logger and driving normally around town and on the freeway the oil temp never goes above 188.6F. Multiple logs show that the oil pretty much settles at this temp. I have to get stuck in freeway traffic for 10+ minutes or go on a canyon run to get the temps go higher. So far the highest temp I've logged on the street is 201.2F. On the track my highest temp recorded is 239F. I hit that temp after 10 mins into the session, and the engine coolant is at 208.4F (if anyone is interested). At which point my temp gauge sensor says my oil is at or over 280F. That's when I start short shifting at about 6,000 rpm instead of shifting above 7K to let the oil cooler do its job and cool the oil down.


So here's a question. If the ECU temp reads under 240F, but the oil at the sandwich plate is closer to 280F then doesn't that still mean that my oil is still getting sheared by the high temps?