BRZ vs Mustang - Here is the review the haters have been waiting for.

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

Interesting cause on Fords site, a GT is $30,995 starting MSRP. So you can get $4,000 dollars less for a GT? Says Premium V6 is MSRP $26,895.

I believe it. After cash back incentives and all the insane stuff you can get knocked off of domestic cars, it's a big chunk. Two years ago, when I was looking at the Toyota/Ford dealership before we bought the Camry, we were talking to the sales guy about pricing. He said he could do invoice on a Corolla but not go any lower than that. He said if I wanted a Mustang, however, I could knock about 5 grand from the sticker.

And if it comes from the factory it's stock. As in, it came ordered that way, not modified with aftermarket parts. But then if that doesn't hold true, any special variant on a car is just a "not stock" version of the original... even if it's stock.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by KaliKev

I don't care which car is faster, just which one puts the biggest smile on my face and smallest dent in my pocket.

That's a good point and the Brz gets the JDM ladies

[Leepox]

Originally Posted by Eureka

Interesting to see how the same driver (Randy Pobst) able to actually post FASTER lap time with the BRZ (1:30.32) vs. the FRS (1:31.15) as shown previously in the ignition episode of the FRS review. This really confuses me as we all saw the previous onboard comparisons of the two cars on Tsukuba?(dont remember) by Japanese drivers where the 86 beats the BRZ ever so slightly. I guess this just proves that neither car is faster or slower. All up to the driver's style (grip vs drift)

He was hooning it around with the FRS. The BRZ drive was more of a grip drive.

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by ubersoph

Uh... have you LOOKED inside a mustang? You most certainly, and easily can.

I'm picking the BRZ for a reason, but c'mon - check the mustang out before you espouse opinions on it. The mustang is a great car all around. Less sharp/pure than the BRZ, but it compromises for a different and totally enjoyable driving experience.

Like I stated before my friends has a mustang... I doubt those 19 inch rims and tires will fit in the back seat of a mustang... I still wanna see the BRZ with proper set of tires go around streets of willow mustang def is good but its not as good in the corners as the BRZ..., chassis wise the BRZ is superior... It won the vehicle dynamist award,, 911 s chase that title

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by n2oinferno

I believe it. After cash back incentives and all the insane stuff you can get knocked off of domestic cars, it's a big chunk. Two years ago, when I was looking at the Toyota/Ford dealership before we bought the Camry, we were talking to the sales guy about pricing. He said he could do invoice on a Corolla but not go any lower than that. He said if I wanted a Mustang, however, I could knock about 5 grand from the sticker.

And if it comes from the factory it's stock. As in, it came ordered that way, not modified with aftermarket parts. But then if that doesn't hold true, any special variant on a car is just a "not stock" version of the original... even if it's stock.

So they just give incentives to buy American or the American cars hold poor value. When they decide to make a car that's not the size of a small elephant then it will be appealing to me. I like the whole "getting more done with less" feel. A big Camaro, Mustang or Charger just doesn't do that for me.

[blur]

This doesn't surprise me at all, lol. A FR-S/BRZ with a sports package(sways/wheels/tires/shocks/springs) will obliterate the Mustang... as to the stang, I don't think you can ever make it faster in the corners, unless you did some massive weight reduction ...

Imagine this car on slicks w/ coilovers.... yum.

[mkxr]

Originally Posted by JACK 8URT0N

Makes sense, assuming he meant the Integra Type R, when comparing high revving fun.

Well, yes, although Acura is just a brand, like Scion. We can't really say Scion designed a great car. Honda and Toyota are the parent companies that are behind the designs and engineering.
I just hope the FR-S/BRZ won't be a giant theft magnet like my ITR was

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by blur

This doesn't surprise me at all, lol. A FR-S/BRZ with a sports package(sways/wheels/tires/shocks/springs) will obliterate the Mustang... as to the stang, I don't think you can ever make it faster in the corners, unless you did some massive weight reduction ...

Imagine this car on slicks w/ coilovers.... yum.

so a stock car costing thousands less will be slower than a modded car? The things to make abrz faster in the corners will make the mustang faster too

[JACK 8URT0N]

Originally Posted by mkxr

I just hope the FR-S/BRZ won't be a giant theft magnet like my ITR was

Mine was stolen too.

[SoCal_AE86]

86/frs/brz more fun to
Great video!!

[Steve]

Originally Posted by justaquestion

God, the more I read this forum, the more I see that 99% of its members are incredibly ignorant to anything automotive. From the looks of things, were going to see a new genre of crowd, that will be labeled as the Toybaru people.

The FR-S/BRZ will be a great car, but it won't even come close to being one of the fastest cars out there on a track or the road, and I have to underline 'will' because I am so tired of hearing people preach about this car as if they have been driving it for the last 3 years. Most of you probably couldn't even tell the difference between a "drivers" car and your moms station wagon as far as road and brake feel are concerned.

As far as a Mustang is concerned, and I am purely going off of factual track times. The GT completely shits on everything under 90k. And the V6 shits on everything in its price group too. Hell, the v6 shit on the STI on an equal opportunity track, while bouncing off the rev limiter for a few seconds. Anyone who thinks the new mustangs can't handle a turn are living in another world.

As far as a car being stock. I am sure a lot of you don't know this, because your too young to have ever bought a new car on your own. But when you get one, you get this thing called an invoice receipt, and it lists every option the car has from the factory. If you ordered a track package, then its on the invoice, therefor making it a factory car. If you buy a car, drive it off the lot, and decide 3 days later you want a specific performance part the manufacturer sells which is covered under warranty, well guess what? They don't add it to the invoice of the car, therefor its no longer stock.

I cant wait till these things start showing up on the roads and I get to hear about the sad looks on peoples faces when they exit a turn behind a car they thought they were playing with and its 15 car lengths ahead of them. There are cars that can go really fast, and there's cars that can handle really well. The sweet spot is in the middle and some of you aren't going to open your eyes to that until its cost you 26k.

No one has called the 86 "fast", we all know it is "slow" compared to the competition. Most people on here, including myself, drive or have driven cars with the same or less power and know what to expect.

It is obvious the new mustang can handle turns, especially after watching this video, but turns will feel worlds different with the BRZ.

How old are you wise man? With your use of "shits on", I'm guessing about 25.

[NickDude84]

I really believe that alot of people are not in the market for a new car. They are just fanboys not realizing all the options u have for a 28k 2+2 sports car. Those who put a deposit down and the first 86 are people who know for a fact they want this car and no review or comment will change their mind. Then their are people like me who have been saving their money and are in the market to buy a car now but are waiting to test drive the brz/fr-s b4 plopping down the money for it.

And come on stop all this "what if" crap. U have to realize what ever mod or money that u do to the brz can also be done to any other car. The fact is this they tested two cars and one was faster than the other no tricks it was the same driver on the same track with the same conditions and both were factory cars. Perhaps a couple years from now Subaru will add a turbo and blow away the competition but now they are getting beat easily.

[brewksy]

Love responding to trolls

Originally Posted by justaquestion

God, the more I read this forum, the more I see that 99% of its members are incredibly ignorant to anything automotive. From the looks of things, were going to see a new genre of crowd, that will be labeled as the Toybaru people.

They'll fit really well into the various "Mustang" crowds out there, right? Claiming that you've discovered fanboi-ism doesn't make it any better or worse.

The FR-S/BRZ will be a great car, but it won't even come close to being one of the fastest cars out there on a track or the road, and I have to underline 'will' because I am so tired of hearing people preach about this car as if they have been driving it for the last 3 years. Most of you probably couldn't even tell the difference between a "drivers" car and your moms station wagon as far as road and brake feel are concerned.

You equate GREAT car, to the FASTEST car. That's your first problem (and obviously not your last). With that pretense, I can only say that this is not the car for you and never will be. You need to move on to the Mustang forums.

You can deride us for listening to the majority of journalists/professionals that say this is the *best* driver's car in its class, but to claim that none of us won't be able to tell the difference when we drive it is ignorant... and mostly stupid.

The Mustang is a boat. An awesome-handling, powerful boat. That's a fact. And I can tell the difference between a boat and a car.

As far as a Mustang is concerned, and I am purely going off of factual track times. The GT completely shits on everything under 90k. And the V6 shits on everything in its price group too. Hell, the v6 shit on the STI on an equal opportunity track, while bouncing off the rev limiter for a few seconds. Anyone who thinks the new mustangs can't handle a turn are living in another world.

Again, a lame attempt to convince us that lap times = greatness about a car. An unflushed toilet doesn't have this much shit in it.

As far as a car being stock. I am sure a lot of you don't know this, because your too young to have ever bought a new car on your own. But when you get one, you get this thing called an invoice receipt, and it lists every option the car has from the factory. If you ordered a track package, then its on the invoice, therefor making it a factory car. If you buy a car, drive it off the lot, and decide 3 days later you want a specific performance part the manufacturer sells which is covered under warranty, well guess what? They don't add it to the invoice of the car, therefor its no longer stock.

No one cares what your definition of "stock" is.

I cant wait till these things start showing up on the roads and I get to hear about the sad looks on peoples faces when they exit a turn behind a car they thought they were playing with and its 15 car lengths ahead of them. There are cars that can go really fast, and there's cars that can handle really well. The sweet spot is in the middle and some of you aren't going to open your eyes to that until its cost you 26k.

Well, if you're talking about the street, I certainly won't care about some asshat in a Mustang 15-car lengths ahead of me after that turn at the schoolyard crosswalk. If we're talking about racing on the track, there's a reason the GT is in F-Stock according to the SCCA and this car is likely to be D-Stock or (unlikely) C-Stock.

Your sweet spot is your opinion - I'd rather just have a car that I enjoy driving.

Originally Posted by NickDude84

The fact is this they tested two cars and one was faster than the other no tricks it was the same driver on the same track with the same conditions and both were factory cars. Perhaps a couple years from now Subaru will add a turbo and blow away the competition but now they are getting beat easily.

Did you even watch the video? I think you missed 98% of the opinions of both cars.

[blur]

Originally Posted by fatoni

so a stock car costing thousands less will be slower than a modded car? The things to make abrz faster in the corners will make the mustang faster too

You're comparing tire sizes of 255 vs 215... with the same tires as the stang the 86 will out-handle it, easily...

It's the same as the GT-R owning everyone in the first 4 laps, then brake fade hits and the tires get greasy... and everyone passes you. Same thing will happen on the stang. The 86, on the other hand...

How come there are no stock car enduros, would be an entertaining watch...

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by justaquestion

God, the more I read this forum, the more I see that 99% of its members are incredibly ignorant to anything automotive. From the looks of things, were going to see a new genre of crowd, that will be labeled as the Toybaru people.

Ah well, might be a bit of a relief from all the bowtie and blue oval fanbois over the ages...

The FR-S/BRZ will be a great car, but it won't even come close to being one of the fastest cars out there on a track or the road,

This is news to pretty much no one.

As far as a Mustang is concerned, and I am purely going off of factual track times. The GT completely shits on everything under 90k.

Corvette?

Anyone who thinks the new mustangs can't handle a turn are living in another world.

Analogy: Budweiser can get you just as drunk as Samuel Adams can. But some of us will enjoy Samuel Adams a LOT more.

I cant wait till these things start showing up on the roads and I get to hear about the sad looks on peoples faces when they exit a turn behind a car they thought they were playing with and its 15 car lengths ahead of them. There are cars that can go really fast, and there's cars that can handle really well. The sweet spot is in the middle and some of you aren't going to open your eyes to that until its cost you 26k.

Sweet spot is in a different place for all of us.
Power and outright acceleration is totally overrated on the street, anyway. You have to drive like an ass to use it. I DD an S2000 and never get into VTEC on the street (never out of it at the track). The way I drive it on the street, it's essentially a 150hp car, and it is *still* FUN to drive.
In a way that a 3500+ lb. Mustang will never be.

The FR-S/BRZ will essentially give me the same DD fun as the S2000 with a fixed roof and some more utility, which is why it STRONGLY appeals to me.

At the track, I don't see a reason to compromise either handling or power. So 515hp 2825 lb. FD RX-7

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by blur

You're comparing tire sizes of 255 vs 215... with the same tires as the stang the 86 will out-handle it, easily...

Actually, the FR-S/BRZ on 215s has more tire width per weight than the V6 Mustang on 255s.

With both on same make/model tires in the respective OEM sizings, I wouldn't bet against the Toyobaru vs. Track Pack Mustang as far as handling goes.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by NickDude84

I really believe that alot of people are not in the market for a new car. They are just fanboys not realizing all the options u have for a 28k 2+2 sports car. Those who put a deposit down and the first 86 are people who know for a fact they want this car and no review or comment will change their mind. Then their are people like me who have been saving their money and are in the market to buy a car now but are waiting to test drive the brz/fr-s b4 plopping down the money for it.

And come on stop all this "what if" crap. U have to realize what ever mod or money that u do to the brz can also be done to any other car. The fact is this they tested two cars and one was faster than the other no tricks it was the same driver on the same track with the same conditions and both were factory cars. Perhaps a couple years from now Subaru will add a turbo and blow away the competition but now they are getting beat easily.

No, I think most people are in the same boat as you, including myself. Only a small handful of people have put down money on the car before driving it, which I agree is quite silly.

I personally have driven modestly powered compact coupes since I started driving, and that's what I intend to replace my 92 celica with.

Maybe it's just lack direct competition for this car that is causing fanboyism?
Or maybe its the nostalgia causing it since this car is inspired by and has the size and power you'd expect from a car built in the 80's or 90's?

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by NickDude84

I really believe that alot of people are not in the market for a new car. They are just fanboys not realizing all the options u have for a 28k 2+2 sports car. Those who put a deposit down and the first 86 are people who know for a fact they want this car and no review or comment will change their mind. Then their are people like me who have been saving their money and are in the market to buy a car now but are waiting to test drive the brz/fr-s b4 plopping down the money for it.

And come on stop all this "what if" crap. U have to realize what ever mod or money that u do to the brz can also be done to any other car. The fact is this they tested two cars and one was faster than the other no tricks it was the same driver on the same track with the same conditions and both were factory cars. Perhaps a couple years from now Subaru will add a turbo and blow away the competition but now they are getting beat easily.

I don't see how you could watch that video and think the mustang won that comparison, but if you care that much about lap times you can join the millions of secretaries and hair dressers out there and get yourself a v6 mustang. Good riddance.

Originally Posted by justaquestion

The GT completely shits on everything under 90k.

And we are the ones being called fanboys...

[fistpoint]

Who the hell would spend $30k on a V6 Mustang? Or even $28k?

[SaulGood3]

1:30 and 1:29 is a good time around Streets of Willow no matter what car it is!!

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by blur

You're comparing tire sizes of 255 vs 215... with the same tires as the stang the 86 will out-handle it, easily...

It's the same as the GT-R owning everyone in the first 4 laps, then brake fade hits and the tires get greasy... and everyone passes you. Same thing will happen on the stang. The 86, on the other hand...

How come there are no stock car enduros, would be an entertaining watch...

...well on the other hand the mustang isnt passing the 86 because its in the rearview? but serisously we are again comparing a stock car to a modded car is stupid especially if the more expensive one is the one that gets modded. wheels and tires that size are expensive if you can even find them in that bolt pattern. that kind of money can make a v6 mustang fast too or better yet, get you into a gt where i dont think tires alone will get you into that league.

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by justaquestion

Thanks for this useless response, that hasn't even any relevance to a counter argument for anything I said. It might have looked intelligent, had I been talking to myself, but everything was a response to the ten page thread you obviously haven't been following. Thanks for chiming in though with your thoughts

When you have a ten page thread, with the majority of responses relating to either cheering that the BRZ was a second and a half slower then the V6 Mustang, what can be done to make it faster then the V6 Mustang, and why the BRZ is actually faster because of the extra options the V6 came with... I would consider that a pretty big representation of people with a "lame attempt to convince us that lap times = greatness about a car." attitude.

You are ignoring what everyone is saying and hearing what you want to hear. Nobody is "cheering that the BRZ lost." Maybe you need to watch the video again? I don't get how anyone could watch this comparison and think they preferred the Mustang. There is more to buying a car than how fast it can go around the streets of willow springs.