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Old 05-01-2012, 09:43 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Jeff Lange View Post
The new car features book.

Jeff
Where's Jordo now to argue about how the AT will be faster....
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:47 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by 86fanatic View Post
For me, shifting is a mechanical chore. It doesn't make me feel more connected to the car, it's simply a task I have to perform over and over to extract the right amount of power from the car. Driving a modern performance oriented automatic or DCT, and I was instantly converted. I understand shifting makes some people feel more connected to the car, but for me, it's a chore especially when we have the technology to do it better then humans.
It's definately preference. I've been in/driven better autos and many DCT gears, including P cars. All it told me was that I would never switch from MT cars. :shrug:
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:50 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Oriental Life View Post
If that AT is good for 60K+ IS-F, its good for me.

Actually I have a strong feeling that in FT-86 package we are underpaying for that automatic tranny at least 2-3K for what it is.

It will be interesting to watch dynamics of the resale value, just to find out that AT is sought after more, since its wasn't popular with die-hards
You swapping in an IS-F trans? Cause the 86 doesn't come with one....

It's an IS trans with new tuning and *maybe* new solenoids..

Fact is with sports cars MT cars generally are worth more than AT cars, at least on cars I've looked at in the past.

For the last 10 years I've mostly only owned cars that were only sold with manuals, which is my preference for cars.. I'd rather not have development money wasted on ATs
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:51 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Turbowned View Post
The IS-F is a Luxury Sport Sedan, which by all rights ought to have been offered with a manual transmission like all it's competitors did: BMW M3, Cadillac CTS-V, Audi RS 4/S4.
Agreed. And it's the reason I would never even consider an IS-F.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:52 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by lpnnlp View Post
I don't know what it is about a competent automatic that brings out the MT purists with various levels of condescension of those who choose otherwise.

I came here because this car is offering the kind of control a MT offers without the chore of shifting.

I could take my laundry to a river bed with a washboard. No doubt I will really get in touch with the stains, the seams, and the quality of detergent I am using. Now we have machines with buttons for that, just like our transmissions.
Actually I couldn't care less what people buy. I can explain why I like MT cars just like you can explain why you like AT cars

Do I have a very high dislike of ATs and DCTs? Absolutely. I absolutely ENJOY driving a MT car. It's not a chore, it's enjoyable. You don't like those things, and that's fine.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:54 AM   #72
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The dishwasher cycle is automated. You still have total control and timing of your shifts with this AT. The keyword is CONTROL. The only thing it's taking away is the chore of shifting and getting your hands and feet away from where they belong.
Until the trans gets hot
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:58 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by lpnnlp View Post
We don't know yet the drivetrain efficiency of the AT, but given that it locks early on, the dyno results could be similar. We will have to wait on that.

When you say "speed," you mean 0-60? If so, the slightly taller gear ratio might get the AT to true 60 mph without shifting to 3rd, so any advantage that the MT has could be negated in a 0-60 test. We will have to wait on that one too.
I agree here on the power, it should show basically the same results (ie normal variance between cars).

The AT (mathmatically anyways) will hit 64 in second. Gearing is worse though and makes up for the potential shift (by the math, the MT hits 60 in 2nd also).
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:58 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Dave-ROR View Post
Agreed. And it's the reason I would never even consider an IS-F.
Agreed.

That being said, as far as lock-up torque converter ATs go the IS-F's is pretty decent. And the car is a blast to drive.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:59 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Oriental Life View Post
True. But consider this: IS-F tranny is in production for 4 years already. Unless they completely messed up, trying to cut costs, it should be exactly like IS-F 1-6 gears and practically the same ECU.

MT on the other hand - indeed a brand new one.

JDM video was funny - I wonder why BRZ won over 86 by a rather big margin. I was surprised to see that.
How long has the *IS* trans been in production? That's what this trans is, ratios and all. They did NOT modify an IS-F trans to remove two gears for this car.

The MT has been in existence since at LEAST 1999. It's an Aisin AZ6. Each AZ6 is slightly different for each car but it's far from a new transmission.

BRZ>86 because of the drivers.
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:24 PM   #76
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We covered this a long time ago.

The USDM IS250 had the AY6 not the AZ6. I don't know the AT's history but it might have come from the same car as the AZ6, the Altezza RS200.
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Old 05-01-2012, 02:43 PM   #77
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We covered this a long time ago.

The USDM IS250 had the AY6 not the AZ6. I don't know the AT's history but it might have come from the same car as the AZ6, the Altezza RS200.
Correct on the manual, the AZ is from the Altezza. And the RX8, MX5, S2K, S15, etc.

AT is a IS250 AT.
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Old 05-01-2012, 03:13 PM   #78
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I guess my definition of driving is different than yours.

Look, I don't care if you want a CVT or a dishwasher in the 86; a manual transmission is fun.

I don't think you're less of a man for wanting an auto, hell, it's probably faster on a track, but I'll never be on a track.

A good manual provides an experience and a level of involvement that I don't think an auto will ever have. But driving a MT shouldn't be a chore. If it is, well, thank Toyobaru for making your dreams come true.
This is the kind of response I like from manual only drivers. Why others can't be as positive as you about the situation?
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Old 05-01-2012, 05:23 PM   #79
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I suggest every1 getting a MT....the lone auto on the lot will be mine

Beside, my wife says she will fork in half the cash if it's an auto....win win for me...
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Old 09-15-2012, 10:24 PM   #80
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I went into the dealer wanting a MT & drove the AT first.I said I wanted a MT & would wait till one was available.Well,the deal fell thru on the MT & I drove it.It felt different,not as stout & I just liked the feel of the AT so I bought the AT.The AT in this particular vehicle caused the engine to sound, more throaty & seemed to be as fast when I used the sport mode w/the traction control off.Now I know the stick is supposed to be faster.But the comparison I watched on YouTube left the car in DRIVE sport on BUT with the traction control ON.When I drive mine,I hold the traction control down for the 3-5 seconds,turn on the sport & paddle shift the auto.It shifts fast,faster thanI can shift the stick.The car really shifts fast at red/lite/line.My previous car was a 6-speed Genesis Turbo with Cold air intake MagnaFlow 3 inch cat back & a Poweraxel turbo boost controller that increases the boost from 7 to 20 lbs.The car was fast & I would never have wanted it in a AT or any car till I drove the Scion.The sport mode w/Traction control off ( torque converter off) allows down shifting that accually holds the revs up like a stick.The AT really sold the car for me.
Of course I did try to be reasonable once,
I didn't like it.
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Old 09-15-2012, 11:43 PM   #81
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Your driving style will have a bigger effect on mileage then the transmission will, so ymmv.

You can still hold and eat a hamburger while driving a manual. A friend of mine shifts through 18 gears with a tea in one hand and his lunch in the other, regularly.

Just food for thought
i suppose this is possible. i guess it is also possible
to ''fornicate"in the back seat of a fr-s,however i wouldn't attempt it!
due to the "possibility" of having to wear a "colostomy" bag after i was done!
just sayin'

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having to go into 3rd to hit 60 kills the number on paper

how to not be shunned by oblivious fast and the furious enthusiasts? :O

at least the car looks fast

better yet, imagine a world where everything little thing wasn't compared, nit picked and measured in numbers. but instead decisions were based on feel, whoa mind blown

thanks to fairly lightweight this car will feel faster than these numbers suggest, it will feel faster than bigger cars that go faster

even better yet, you can take the corner faster, and taking corners fast is even more fun than going in a straight line fast

whoa mind blown more
this is " dead nuts" accurate the lightweight ''attributes" of this car cannot be overstated. the sensation of speed will be greater,especially when cornering,
which is precisely WHY it was built.
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Old 09-16-2012, 03:03 PM   #82
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I am totally biased towards MT... so my opinion is that there is zero benefit at all to the AT. If you HAVE to have the AT (leg/knee issues, etc.) then I can understand, but otherwise there's no reason to get the AT.

Both hands should always be on the wheel either way, so that's not a pro of AT.

I don't find the MT to be harder to drive in traffic... so not sure that's really a pro of AT either. If anything I can't stand people who just lightly lift off their brake so the car moves forward on an AT while the brake lights are still on.

I really don't even understand why this car comes in an AT, but I guess it is to appeal to a wider audience (after all it has back seats for no good reason too...).

Coming from years and years of driving many many MT sports cars I can't stand driving AT. My car always feels so much better after I come back from a trip where I've had to drive an AT rental car for a week.

As always it's up to each person, but if somebody is coming to the FR-S never having driven a MT before then I highly suggest you get the MT and just force yourself to learn.
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Old 09-16-2012, 03:22 PM   #83
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I am totally biased towards MT... so my opinion is that there is zero benefit at all to the AT. If you HAVE to have the AT (leg/knee issues, etc.) then I can understand, but otherwise there's no reason to get the AT.

Both hands should always be on the wheel either way, so that's not a pro of AT.

I don't find the MT to be harder to drive in traffic... so not sure that's really a pro of AT either. If anything I can't stand people who just lightly lift off their brake so the car moves forward on an AT while the brake lights are still on.

I really don't even understand why this car comes in an AT, but I guess it is to appeal to a wider audience (after all it has back seats for no good reason too...).

Coming from years and years of driving many many MT sports cars I can't stand driving AT. My car always feels so much better after I come back from a trip where I've had to drive an AT rental car for a week.

As always it's up to each person, but if somebody is coming to the FR-S never having driven a MT before then I highly suggest you get the MT and just force yourself to learn.
Oh you live in Florida? Traffic there?
Nah!

On a car like this it doesn't really matter if you get AT or MT performance wise, hell its starting to turn into that for all cars! Some of us bought the AT cause we thought it was an interesting automatic, some of us like paddle shifters, some of us drive in traffic daily and don't want to have our gearbox to suffer and then some of us just don't know how to drive MT. To dismiss automatic gearboxes by themselves is just plain foolish.

Alright, i'm done on this topic forever.

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Old 09-16-2012, 06:46 PM   #84
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I am totally biased towards MT... so my opinion is that there is zero benefit at all to the AT. If you HAVE to have the AT (leg/knee issues, etc.) then I can understand, but otherwise there's no reason to get the AT.

Both hands should always be on the wheel either way, so that's not a pro of AT.

I don't find the MT to be harder to drive in traffic... so not sure that's really a pro of AT either. If anything I can't stand people who just lightly lift off their brake so the car moves forward on an AT while the brake lights are still on.

I really don't even understand why this car comes in an AT, but I guess it is to appeal to a wider audience (after all it has back seats for no good reason too...).

Coming from years and years of driving many many MT sports cars I can't stand driving AT. My car always feels so much better after I come back from a trip where I've had to drive an AT rental car for a week.

As always it's up to each person, but if somebody is coming to the FR-S never having driven a MT before then I highly suggest you get the MT and just force yourself to learn.
i agree! "slush" boxes should be reserved for land yachts ,of which there are many on the road...just sayin'
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:18 PM   #85
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Oh you live in Florida? Traffic there?
Nah!

On a car like this it doesn't really matter if you get AT or MT performance wise, hell its starting to turn into that for all cars! Some of us bought the AT cause we thought it was an interesting automatic, some of us like paddle shifters, some of us drive in traffic daily and don't want to have our gearbox to suffer and then some of us just don't know how to drive MT. To dismiss automatic gearboxes by themselves is just plain foolish.

Alright, i'm done on this topic forever.
Well, I actually haven't lived in Florida very long... I honestly don't get what the issue is with MT and traffic.

Like I said, to each their own. All I know is I've tried AT's and can't get used to it. I had a VW R32 with the DSG AT which is arguably one of the best ATs out there, and I sold it within 3 months. I feel like if you don't HAVE to use the paddle shifters, then there's really no point in ever using them. It sounds strange, but I'd rather them put the paddle shifters in but remove any automatic control so it still works like a manual transmission just with paddles instead of a clutch pedal and shift lever.
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Old 09-22-2012, 09:58 AM   #86
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I've never had an Auto last longer than 150k miles. At that point when the vehicle needs a new transmission it is basically totaled because a new slushbox will cost more than the car is worth and a rebuild is a hope and a prayer.

I have zero confidence that this 6 speed auto will last more than 100k. New model, new tranny with extra gears, for rwd with a torsen axle. Just don't have confidence in it. In ten years this new tranny will be impossible to find, finding someone who one could trust to rebuild a low production 6 speed auto will be a huge challenge.

The FRS manual is the best I have driven, better than the classic BMW/borg warner manuals. Its the sh*t.

My humble opinion is that the only time an auto is a good choice for a performance car is for a turbo drag setup. Like a Buick Grand National, those were bullet proof autos that actually helped performance.

The reason this car has an Auto option because the 6 gears allows institutionalized atrificial higher than real life EPA ratings. Also a few folks in their 20's don't know how to drive a manual. But I think that people that age are catching on to learn how to work a clutch.

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Old 09-22-2012, 05:20 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by TOMCENTRAL View Post
I went into the dealer wanting a MT & drove the AT first.I said I wanted a MT & would wait till one was available.Well,the deal fell thru on the MT & I drove it.It felt different,not as stout & I just liked the feel of the AT so I bought the AT.The AT in this particular vehicle caused the engine to sound, more throaty & seemed to be as fast when I used the sport mode w/the traction control off.Now I know the stick is supposed to be faster.But the comparison I watched on YouTube left the car in DRIVE sport on BUT with the traction control ON.When I drive mine,I hold the traction control down for the 3-5 seconds,turn on the sport & paddle shift the auto.It shifts fast,faster thanI can shift the stick.The car really shifts fast at red/lite/line.My previous car was a 6-speed Genesis Turbo with Cold air intake MagnaFlow 3 inch cat back & a Poweraxel turbo boost controller that increases the boost from 7 to 20 lbs.The car was fast & I would never have wanted it in a AT or any car till I drove the Scion.The sport mode w/Traction control off ( torque converter off) allows down shifting that accually holds the revs up like a stick.The AT really sold the car for me.
Of course I did try to be reasonable once,
I didn't like it.
Regards,Tom
I love this review!! So basically it felt like a manual transmission without the POS clutches I hate so much huh? If so I am also sold on the AT hands down. The thing I can't understand about manual trannys is why they can't make the clutch easy to use? Brakes is easy to use. Gas pedal is easy to use. The steering wheel is easy to use. The gearbox is easy to use. But why the FUCK does a clutch need an "engagement point" for? How is that driver friendly I ask? If the BRZ had a clutch where you just press it and shift the car without worrying about an engagement point I would rather a manual hands down.
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Old 09-22-2012, 05:25 PM   #88
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I've never had an Auto last longer than 150k miles. At that point when the vehicle needs a new transmission it is basically totaled because a new slushbox will cost more than the car is worth and a rebuild is a hope and a prayer.

I have zero confidence that this 6 speed auto will last more than 100k. New model, new tranny with extra gears, for rwd with a torsen axle. Just don't have confidence in it. In ten years this new tranny will be impossible to find, finding someone who one could trust to rebuild a low production 6 speed auto will be a huge challenge.

The FRS manual is the best I have driven, better than the classic BMW/borg warner manuals. Its the sh*t.

My humble opinion is that the only time an auto is a good choice for aperformance car is for a turbo drag setup. Like a Buick Grand National, those were bullet proof autos that actually helped performance.

The reason this car has an Auto option because the 6 gears allows institutionalized atrificial higher than real life EPA ratings. Also a few folks in their 20's don't know how to drive a manual. But I think that people that age are catching on to learn how to work a clutch.

IS250 isn't as new as a BRZ. And in the IS250 the tranny handles more torque output(184lb ft). I had a 97 RL with 190k miles and my auto was smooth as butter. My RSX automatic has 115k miles on it now and is still smooth even though I abuse it in manual shift mode.
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