BRZ vs 86 vs Miata Roadster TRACK BATTLE

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by KyShro

Any chance of a bare-bones RC model ever coming to the States?

There was a company at the Long Beach Formula Drift event that had one for sale. There was a discussion about it in another thread somewhere. It was a 4 wheel drive "drift car" and it was too wide, but still looked pretty cool.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by KyShro

Any chance of a bare-bones RC model ever coming to the States?

Sadly no...

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

Ok, you don't want to keyboard race? Let's do real race then, you in your 86 and me in my BRZ and we'll see who's faster. Then we'll switch cars and do it again. The same person will win both times because the cars are identical to the point where it will come down to which driver is better. I'm not denying that the 86 seems to get better lap times when taken around by a professional driver but nobody here is a professional driver so it won't make a difference. These comparisons between the 86 and BRZ need to stop, they are the same car. You say that the keyboard racing is absurd, an then in the same paragraph you say, well clearly from these videos the 86 is faster. How is that not keyboard racing?

I would greatly obliged that request, as my friends and myself are at the track turning laps twice a month at minimal. We run SCCA AutoX a lot as well. So I feel most comfortable at the track. I hope I do meet other BRZ and FR-S owners there.

In the situation where skill comes into play between you and I and switching cars and same driver wins again, does not apply in this situation. These are PRO drivers and driver skill is fairly close to equal.

Secondly the Tsukuba lap battle was a video of the SAME driver driving both cars with the 86 still showing a 1sec+change being faster. There is no need to try and talk about different drivers when the same driver drives both and still has the same results. My post was to tell people to stop whining about the lap times and making these wild claims about bias this and fixed race that. We have sufficient enough evidence that the 86 can turn a faster lap time. My keyboard racer comment pertains to all the people claiming foul play in every video showing the 86 turning a quicker lap. Not that they weren't the same car. Difference in suspension tuning is evident in them.

[KyShro]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

There was a company at the Long Beach Formula Drift event that had one for sale. There was a discussion about it in another thread somewhere. It was a 4 wheel drive "drift car" and it was too wide, but still looked pretty cool.

I was at the FD Long Beach event as well and saw that one (red) that you are talking about, but that's not what I am referring to. I'm talking about the 86 witht the black front/rear bumpers & black steelies.

[KyShro]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Sadly no...

Damn. Maybe could take a little off the price too... any idea how much cheaper they are than the standard in Japan?

[blu_]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

At the end of the lap battle they show the time for fastest lap. 86 was a about a second faster compared to the BRZ fastest lap time.

How many iterations will it take for what seems to be only the BRZ people griping over the BRZ showing a second slower at the track.

1) we had the other video come out with both at Tsukuba...Same results and it was the same driver who drove both cars for time. Excuses started flying when the same driver drove both.

2) we have this video with two Pro drivers and the fastest lap times displayed at the end show the same results...86 being 1sec +/- faster than the BRZ. Excuses start flying and claiming bias.

Just get over it already. You chose the FR-S or BRZ. No one is going to fault you either way.But the whining and conspiracy theories from Keyboard racers is rather absurd.

The only decent lap shown to get a feel for the cars actual times was the 2nd lap and the brz lost a second on the first turn. Despite having different handling characteristics after the 1st turn of the 2nd lap the Toyota basically held the same lead the rest of the lap. Lap 3 was a joke, Lap 1 they were stuck behind the Mx-5.

I prefer the Toyota handling more, but I don't buy that its making a 1sec/lap difference on either of the circuits shown so far. JUST MY OPINION.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by blu_

The only decent lap shown to get a feel for the cars actual times was the 2nd lap and the brz lost a second on the first turn. Despite having different handling characteristics after the 1st turn of the 2nd lap the Toyota basically held the same lead the rest of the lap. Lap 3 was a joke, Lap 1 they were stuck behind the Mx-5.

I prefer the Toyota handling more, but I don't buy that its making a 1sec/lap difference on either of the circuits shown so far. JUST MY OPINION.

Did you watch the Tsukuba video? What was your opinion on that one?

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by KyShro

Damn. Maybe could take a little off the price too... any idea how much cheaper they are than the standard in Japan?

Here's the price tag for 86 in Japan
RC - 1,990,000 Yen
G - 2,416,300 Yen (6MT)
GT - 2,769,300 Yen (6MT)
GT Limited - 2,976,300 Yen (6MT)

so 986, 300 Yen difference between GT Limited & RC

[Deslock]

400 meters is 7'8" short of a 1/4 mile. Even at only 90 MPH, it takes less than 0.06 sec to travel that distance.

Going by the video, the JDM 86 and BRZ should be able to do the 1/4 mile in 14.4-14.5 sec with a 3500 RPM launch. But the best USDM 1/4 mile magazine time so far are:

14.8 http://www.insideline.com/scion/fr-s...full-test.html
14.9 http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...leon-road-test
14.9 http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...t/viewall.html

The weight difference between JDM (2712 pounds in the video) and USDM (2758-2776 pounds) isn't enough to account for that.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by Deslock

400 meters is 7'8" short of a 1/4 mile. Even at only 90 MPH, it takes less than 0.06 sec to travel that distance.

Going by the video, the JDM 86 and BRZ should be able to do the 1/4 mile in 14.4-14.5 sec with a 3500 RPM launch. But the best USDM 1/4 mile magazine time so far are:

14.8 http://www.insideline.com/scion/fr-s...full-test.html
14.9 http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...leon-road-test
14.9 http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...t/viewall.html

The weight difference between JDM (2712 pounds in the video) and USDM (2758-2776 pounds) isn't enough to account for that.

Keep in mind that elevations can play in time differences.

[daiheadjai]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

Keep in mind that elevations can play in time differences.

Keep in mind also the average American male is quite a bit larger than the average Japanese male.

Want faster lap times? Hit the gym.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by daiheadjai

Keep in mind also the average American male is quite a bit larger than the average Japanese male.

Want faster lap times? Hit the gym.

Haahaa...yea the 250lb 6ft tall driver probably will have a little more trouble trying to hit that number. To add to that, they aren't at a traditional prepped track (I.e. no VHT track bite laid down), and they are on the OEM tires. So I think once these start hitting the streets and tracks that we will see some low 14 runs. A few bolt ons with a decent set of street tires...possible spare tire removed we should see some high 13 runs.

[OldSkoolToys]

Are people questioning Tsuchiya's ability in a light-weight, tossable, RWD car?

Naoki does NOT suck. Tsuchiya, i would say, is definitely the better driver suited for these types of car's. Not only that, but he's had on-hands experience with this car since the first prototype.

If you've watched your fair share of BMI's (or Hot Versions), then you'd know that Tsuchiya is notorious for insane late braking when it comes to overtaking. He's also notorious for getting a tad bit more serious than others when it comes to racing in these videos. I wouldn't doubt for a second that it was supposed to be a laid back race, and Tsuchiya, just being himself, felt like overtaking when the opportunity came up, just for shits and giggles.

[Xdragonxb0i]

Did the BRZ driver miss-shifted on the 2nd lab around 4:45??

his expression is like F#$!!

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

Haahaa...yea the 250lb 6ft tall driver probably will have a little more trouble trying to hit that number. To add to that, they aren't at a traditional prepped track (I.e. no VHT track bite laid down), and they are on the OEM tires. So I think once these start hitting the streets and tracks that we will see some low 14 runs. A few bolt ons with a decent set of street tires...possible spare tire removed we should see some high 13 runs.

Who was saying these cars were slow? Its getting low 6 secs to 60 MPH and mid 14 secs 1/4 mile times, with fat people doing the testing...on stock tires and stock cars.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Xdragonxb0i

Did the BRZ driver miss-shifted on the 2nd lab around 4:45??

his expression is like F#$!!

Yes he did

[Xdragonxb0i]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Yes he did

yeah that mis-shift is another reason why he lost, not just early braking.

but all seriousness, its the exact same cars we shouldnt have two separate forums for the brz and the frs, i don't like the frs/brz/86 fanboyism on this site.

[dookie11]

Not sure if this has been answered yet, but what does 6.15kg/ps convert to in terms of lb/hp (or however you say it)? Is it a direct conversion? I.e.: 13.59lbs/hp?

[civicdrivr]

Originally Posted by dookie11

Not sure if this has been answered yet, but what does 6.15kg/ps convert to in terms of lb/hp (or however you say it)? Is it a direct conversion? I.e.: 13.59lbs/hp?

Assuming my math is correct, which at this time of the morning, I wouldnt be surprised if it isnt:

6.15kgs/ps
202ps = 200hp
6.15kg x 202ps = 1247kg
1247kg = 2749lbs
2749lbs / 200hp = 13.74lbs/hp

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by civicdrivr

Assuming my math is correct, which at this time of the morning, I wouldnt be surprised if it isnt:

6.15kgs/ps
202ps = 200hp
6.15kg x 202ps = 1247kg
1247kg = 2749lbs
2749lbs / 200hp = 13.74lbs/hp

Your math is mostly right: JDM is 200 PS (197 hp) and the loaded trims with the keyless entry shown in the video are officially listed as 1230 kg (2712 lbs), which matches up with the 6.15 kg/ps in the video (6.15 kg/ps * 200 ps = 1230 kg).

It appears that they just used the manufacturer spec rather than weighing it themselves.

Originally Posted by dookie11

Not sure if this has been answered yet, but what does 6.15kg/ps convert to in terms of lb/hp (or however you say it)? Is it a direct conversion? I.e.: 13.59lbs/hp?

1230 kg
2.2046226 lb/kg
13.5584 lb/ps
0.98632 hp/ps
13.75 lb/hp (JDM loaded 86/BRZ)

Of course, that's only at ~7000 RPM.

I posted this elsewhere, but some of the reasons for the JDM weighing less than USDM are the lack of a spare and fewer speakers.

For reference: http://toyota.jp/86/001_p_001/spec/spec/index.html

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by tripjammer

Who was saying these cars were slow? Its getting low 6 secs to 60 MPH and mid 14 secs 1/4 mile times, with fat people doing the testing...on stock tires and stock cars.

Oh man a lot of people were calling it slow when they announced the 200bhp. I wasn't, caling it slow just FYI...I think that's damn good.

[Leepox]

I don't understand why people are so fussed about this.

If you go karting its pretty much the same, some people are heavier than others and some aren't. Then there are those that are very skilled that even though he weighs 10kg more than the other guy he beats him. Then there's this person whose a lap ahead of everyone by the 10th lap.

Its the same car, different drivers.

Oh, anything that's faster than my current car (8sec) 0-60 is quick in my book.