Stock suspension: Why change it?

[Moshpit37]

I see a lot of people talking about how the first thing they want to do is swap out the shocks/struts, lower the car, etc, etc... My question is "why?" It's like people are saying "everything we've heard so far about this car is how it was designed from day one with handling as the focus, and every review we've read/watched says that the car is fun to drive and handles like a dream, but you know what? I CAN DO BETTER MYSELF."

Granted, I'm sure there are the racers/drifters that actually do need custom setups for their specific needs, but for the rest of us, what's the point?

[Alias]

It's what people are used to doing with their cars because the chassis/suspension is normally less of a focus than the engine. It's reversed on this vehicle but people don't think, they just do what they're used to.

I find it hilarious because it's the same people who have such a problem with anyone who wants to add a couple more torques which is exactly where this car is lacking.

[Racelex]

The car is built for handling, but every driver out there have different driving styles. Changing the suspension is to setup the car to the individual's driving style to maximize the car's potential.

The car isn't lacking in power, most people out there can't even drive a 200hp car to it's full potential. It's not all about putting the pedal to the metal when hitting a long straight way.

[Genomaxter]

Most people cant do suspension tuning correct. This is true. But, the stock setup is a very general tune to work in as many places as possible. That means there is plenty of compromise for any one person's specific road conditions, regardless of street or track driving. Me, I will never see snow while im driving, and yet the suspension is tuned for it.

I heard a good saying from a book I read. Cant remember which but it goes "You can spend your whole life tweeking a suspension and still never get it perfect."

[djliquidsteele]

I'll be the first to say it. The only reason I want springs is to reduce the wheel gap. In order to do this, since the car is lower, you need to stiffen up the springs so id doesn't bottom out. After you do that, the shocks may not be ideally suited to those springs for proper handling. So in essence, I want either a spring/strut combo or coil over system that maintains most of the ride quality/performance of the stock suspension, but drops it 1.5-2 inches.

[Draco-REX]

For those who do know what they're doing, they're removing the compromises that the engineers had to build into it. Other people do it for looks.

Personally, I do it for a little of both. I'm not going to slam the car or ruin the ride. But I am going to lower it a bit and adjust the handling more to my taste. I'm not going to be using it to compete for points, so if it's 0.1sec slower with my setup, it's not a big deal.

Though likely, a drop in CG, an alignment, and stickier tires will lower its times around an AutoX course.

[Fussy08X]

Originally Posted by djliquidsteele

I'll be the first to say it. The only reason I want springs is to reduce the wheel gap. In order to do this, since the car is lower, you need to stiffen up the springs so id doesn't bottom out. After you do that, the shocks may not be ideally suited to those springs for proper handling. So in essence, I want either a spring/strut combo or coil over system that maintains most of the ride quality/performance of the stock suspension, but drops it 1.5-2 inches.

This.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by Moshpit37

Granted, I'm sure there are the racers/drifters that actually do need custom setups for their specific needs, but for the rest of us, what's the point?

Put simply; aesthetics, handling improvement, or both. Not everyone cares how the car looks [racers], and not everyone cares how the car performs [stancers]. I would deduce most people are somewhere in the middle. I for one don't want to drive a sports car that looks like it's prepped for Donk.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by djliquidsteele

I'll be the first to say it. The only reason I want springs is to reduce the wheel gap. In order to do this, since the car is lower, you need to stiffen up the springs so id doesn't bottom out. After you do that, the shocks may not be ideally suited to those springs for proper handling. So in essence, I want either a spring/strut combo or coil over system that maintains most of the ride quality/performance of the stock suspension, but drops it 1.5-2 inches.

I'll admit I'm a complete suspension n00b, and have never had a need to drop a car (although I have raised a truck or two) so pardon if this is a stupid question, but at least I'll learn something out of it.

The numbers I've seen so far for the FR-S range from 5.11" (Toyota numbers) to 4.9" (C&D review) ground clearance, so lets call it 5".

Dropping it 1.5 to 2 inches just to reduce wheel gap would seem to me to make it almost undriveable in the real world. I'm already concerned about some of the speed bumps I go over every day.

Am I missing something obvious?

[Subie]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I'll admit I'm a complete suspension n00b, and have never had a need to drop a car (although I have raised a truck or too) so pardon if this is a stupid question, but at least I'll learn something out of it.

The numbers I've seen so far for the FR-S range from 5.11" (Toyota numbers) to 4.9" (C&D review) ground clearance, so lets call it 5".

Dropping it 1.5 to 2 inches just to reduce wheel gap would seem to me to make it almost undriveable in the real world. I'm already concerned about some of the speed bumps I go over every day.

Am I missing something obvious?

No. A lot of people value looks over practicality.

[DarkSunrise]

Honestly, most people will lower the car for looks. Yes, this can compromise handling, but I doubt most people will track their cars to begin with so it won't make much of a difference.

That said, there are a handful of companies I would trust to actually improve on the BRZ's suspension for track or auto-x use, like Racecomp Engineering. Back when I had my STI hatch, they were one of the few companies that offered springs designed for function over form (i.e., minimal drop, much improved spring rates).

The good news is, there will be companies catering to both sets of owners. If you want to improve performance, you just need to stick to companies like RCE that emphasize performance over looks.

[AX_FRS]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I'll admit I'm a complete suspension n00b, and have never had a need to drop a car (although I have raised a truck or too) so pardon if this is a stupid question, but at least I'll learn something out of it.

The numbers I've seen so far for the FR-S range from 5.11" (Toyota numbers) to 4.9" (C&D review) ground clearance, so lets call it 5".

Dropping it 1.5 to 2 inches just to reduce wheel gap would seem to me to make it almost undriveable in the real world. I'm already concerned about some of the speed bumps I go over every day.

Am I missing something obvious?

yeah, he probably doesn't care.

[russv]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I'll admit I'm a complete suspension n00b, and have never had a need to drop a car (although I have raised a truck or too) so pardon if this is a stupid question, but at least I'll learn something out of it.

The numbers I've seen so far for the FR-S range from 5.11" (Toyota numbers) to 4.9" (C&D review) ground clearance, so lets call it 5".

Dropping it 1.5 to 2 inches just to reduce wheel gap would seem to me to make it almost undriveable in the real world. I'm already concerned about some of the speed bumps I go over every day.

Am I missing something obvious?

I have to agree with Dadhawk on this. Over the weekend I attended a EuroSunday meet of sports car enthusiasts and listened to a number of them boast about how much they spent on suspension mods to lower their cars. Then I watched them gingerly drive over speed bumps on the way out. They will spend 99.9% of their time daily driving and having to watch out for speed bumps and road dips and then do the occasional autocross. Another point about "mods"- I recently sold a Mini Cooper back to a dealer in preparation to getting the FRS and the first question they asked was "Have you done any mods"? It is apparently much more difficult to sell a modded car because of the implication that it has been raced. I plan on keeping my FRS stock because I figure that Toyota / Subaru engineers know what they're doing.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I'll admit I'm a complete suspension n00b, and have never had a need to drop a car (although I have raised a truck or too) so pardon if this is a stupid question, but at least I'll learn something out of it.

The numbers I've seen so far for the FR-S range from 5.11" (Toyota numbers) to 4.9" (C&D review) ground clearance, so lets call it 5".

Dropping it 1.5 to 2 inches just to reduce wheel gap would seem to me to make it almost undriveable in the real world. I'm already concerned about some of the speed bumps I go over every day.

Am I missing something obvious?

Going over the bumps, don't worry, stock don't have problem.

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I'll admit I'm a complete suspension n00b, and have never had a need to drop a car (although I have raised a truck or too) so pardon if this is a stupid question, but at least I'll learn something out of it.

The numbers I've seen so far for the FR-S range from 5.11" (Toyota numbers) to 4.9" (C&D review) ground clearance, so lets call it 5".

Dropping it 1.5 to 2 inches just to reduce wheel gap would seem to me to make it almost undriveable in the real world. I'm already concerned about some of the speed bumps I go over every day.

Am I missing something obvious?

Yeah in my opinion it is already low enough from the factory, I don't think there's any reason to lower it more.

[Rabble]

Damn, this is a tiny car!

[Turbowned]

If you have to ask that question, then you're totally OK leaving your suspension stock.

If you want to know why I will be changing my suspension components, it's because:

A. I want to tweak it to perform better, and better fit my driving style

B. I want to improve the looks of the car. Like many of us, I think the wheel gap on this car looks terrible, and the stock wheels aren't spectacular either.

Now I understand that certain compromises will be made in doing so. The ride quality may be less pleasant, due to higher spring/damper rates and reduced suspension travel. These are compromises the manufacturer had to make to ensure that everyone wouldn't be offended by the way the car behaves. Everyone will have different opinions on what's best for the car. Bottom line is, if you drive it and you're totally satisfied with the way it is stock, then don't worry about it.

[blur]

Originally Posted by russv

I have to agree with Dadhawk on this. Over the weekend I attended a EuroSunday meet of sports car enthusiasts and listened to a number of them boast about how much they spent on suspension mods to lower their cars. Then I watched them gingerly drive over speed bumps on the way out. They will spend 99.9% of their time daily driving and having to watch out for speed bumps and road dips and then do the occasional autocross. Another point about "mods"- I recently sold a Mini Cooper back to a dealer in preparation to getting the FRS and the first question they asked was "Have you done any mods"? It is apparently much more difficult to sell a modded car because of the implication that it has been raced. I plan on keeping my FRS stock because I figure that Toyota / Subaru engineers know what they're doing.

If you know what you're doing then mods can actually increase the value of a car. I've seen race converted and turbocharged civics with asking prices of just below 20K.

Besides, when you trade your car in they will always lowball you.

[russv]

Originally Posted by blur

If you know what you're doing then mods can actually increase the value of a car. I've seen race converted and turbocharged civics with asking prices of just below 20K.

Besides, when you trade your car in they will always lowball you.

I would never consider a modded used car because, like a whore, you don't know where its been.

[luxmn]

Originally Posted by justaquestion

Threads like this are the very reason why I hate car meets, and the car community in general. All I have to ask is, why do you care? Why do you care what someone else is doing with their car. Focus on your own life, your own interest, and your own property, and quit judging people for doing the same.

Also, the right aftermarket suspension for ANY car will improve handling. It doesn't matter if they spent 2 years designing the suspension, because they did it on a budget. Where as purchasing a new aftermarket suspension throws that budget right out the window. I am not saying every aftermarket setup for the BRZ/FR-S will improve handling, but there sure as hell will be a lot that do.

That's like saying, why upgrade the tires when the car was built and tuned around its Prius tires.

i dont think the OP's question was judgmental, or it shouldnt have been. i think it's more like, "really can you explain to me why?" and im no expert at all and i do genuinely want to know.

and again with the Prius tires, it's a set of very nice tires that a Prius can *upgrade* to, they are better than majority of the stock tires you see on the road.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by luxmn

i dont think the OP's question was judgmental, or it shouldnt have been. i think it's more like, "really can you explain to me why?" and im no expert at all and i do genuinely want to know.

and again with the Prius tires, it's a set of very nice tires that a Prius can *upgrade* to, they are better than majority of the stock tires you see on the road.

That's not a regular Prius tire, it's the tire found in Prius sport package that is sold in Japan. I'm using the exact same tire on my IS right now. They are kinda expensive( about 250 for 17"), but they are pretty good. Not very sticky, but grippy and perform fairly good in wet condition.

[luxmn]

Originally Posted by Dark

That's not a regular Prius tire, it's the tire found in Prius sport package that is sold in Japan. I'm using the exact same tire on my IS right now. They are kinda expensive( about 250 for 17"), but they are pretty good. Not very sticky, but grippy and perform fairly good in wet condition.

yup exactly