Lets learn to drive manual! Save my clutch Season 1

[subiestyle]

Originally Posted by RacerX

Just out of curiosity how tall are you guys and how far back do you have your driving position?

I'm 5'10 and I have my seat as far back as it will go. When I was first learning to drive stick I'd have the seat about half way back. As soon as I tried a laid-back driving position I instantly improved in smoothness. It will require ALOT more ankle movement to floor the clutch, but I find that anchoring my heel on the floor gave me so much more control and precision. I can still do all the tricks like heel toe just fine.

I think having the seat this far back is not the norm for someone of my height. The few times I've taking it in for service the seat was adjusted so far forward I could bearly get in it. Now when I move my seat forward I can't stand it.

So if you're struggling with clutch control give this a try. It took a day or three to get used to but it helped me out alot.

Leg inseam is a better indicator. I'm also 5'10" and have relatively longer legs than average men of my height. I'm not all the way back, but I put my seat pretty high up. I like being a bit higher up to have a better view of the road.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Why am I so conservative? Because I grew up with MGs, which require you to pull the engine to replace a clutch, and Triumphs, which require you to pull the transmission--out through the cockpit of the car, after having removed the entire interior and the dash supports. That was always a whole lot of bullshit better avoided. I don't know if clutch replacement in this car is any easier, but I want to put off finding out as long as possible. And I hope you can too.

I can tell you for a fact that dropping the transmission in this car requires none of that bullshit. What you do is you remove the front-pipe, mid-pipe, and axleback, remove the driveshaft mounting collar, remove the transmission mount collar and then the mount bushing (you should have the transmission supported by a jack by now. The idea here is to slip the drive shaft out of the transmission (it's not bolted into the output of the transmission, just slip fit. it's bolted into the rear LSD). Unbolt the rear shifter bushing from the body. Then you begin unbolting the transmission from the engine. Drop the transmission, and let the drive shaft slip out.

You now have the transmission out.

I'm sure there's steps out of order or missing, but that's the major parts of removing the transmission. All that's needed to be done in-cabin is to unscrew the shifter knob from the shifter. The shifter lever is mounted onto a plate which is mated to the transmission itself. The whole assembly beneath the shifter boot drops out with the transmission.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by chas3wba0

Almost 6ft and my seat is about 90% of the way back, or an inch from the rear seat

I'm 5'10", and I have the seat about 65% of the way back. About 3" I think of clearance behind me to the rear seats. Enough to stick a bottle of gear oil and some magazines, or enough leg room for a little kid. I have a 32" inseam.

I don't like to drive with my legs and arms all the way stretched out. With the seat all the way back, I can barely reach the clutch pedal unless I'm slouching in the seat.

I like to drive with something closer to a "race driver" position, with the wheel close in, elbows and knees comfortably bent, back straight and molded to the seat back.

It also lets me operate the clutch fast with my whole leg. That's more power than just using the ankle and much faster.

[chas3wba0]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

I'm 5'10", and I have the seat about 65% of the way back. About 3" I think of clearance behind me to the rear seats. Enough to stick a bottle of gear oil and some magazines, or enough leg room for a little kid. I have a 32" inseam.

I don't like to drive with my legs and arms all the way stretched out. With the seat all the way back, I can barely reach the clutch pedal unless I'm slouching in the seat.

I like to drive with something closer to a "race driver" position, with the wheel close in, elbows and knees comfortably bent, back straight and molded to the seat back.

It also lets me operate the clutch fast with my whole leg. That's more power than just using the ankle and much faster.

Yup, I aim to achieve those same things when I adjust my seat

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by kuhlka

Yeah, I think you do tend to miss stuff because I said the original owner of my STI roasted the clutch for 8,000 miles of the car's life.

Right. Brag about getting a lot of mileage out of your clutch, then blame somebody else when it turns out not to be that much after all.

[extrashaky]

As I was driving home today, it occurred to me that the clutch pedal is actually designed for using your entire leg. Think about the gas pedal. It's set so that it's easy to rest your heel on the floor and flex your ankle. The brake pedal is designed for intermittent use, so it's higher up and levered in such a way that you get the best use of it by lifting your leg off the floor.

If the clutch were intended to be used like a gas pedal, why is it designed just like the brake pedal? This topic got started when someone mentioned not being able to leave his heel on the floor when using the clutch. Maybe that should tell us something.

[sato]

My car has 172k miles... So does my clutch. :-)

Sent from my C6906 using Tapatalk

[kuhlka]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

As I was driving home today, it occurred to me that the clutch pedal is actually designed for using your entire leg. Think about the gas pedal. It's set so that it's easy to rest your heel on the floor and flex your ankle. The brake pedal is designed for intermittent use, so it's higher up and levered in such a way that you get the best use of it by lifting your leg off the floor.

If the clutch were intended to be used like a gas pedal, why is it designed just like the brake pedal? This topic got started when someone mentioned not being able to leave his heel on the floor when using the clutch. Maybe that should tell us something.

Yeah, like maybe it needs to be adjusted. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8040

Not everyone is perfectly average height with perfectly average length legs. Adjusting your seat distance helps a lot as well.

Seriously though, if someone has man-sized feet and can keep their heel on the floor what the hell does it matter? For me it makes everything smoother and faster. I can find the engagement point with ease. For others, they're probably better off kicking if they have little baby feet that don't reach from floor to pedal.

For me kicking is sloppy and I don't have the same kind of fine motor control with my thigh and knee vs my calf and ankle. It's like the difference between using your bicep and elbow to draw vs your fingers and wrist. One is much more precise than the other.

[chas3wba0]

Originally Posted by kuhlka

Yeah, like maybe it needs to be adjusted. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8040

Not everyone is perfectly average height with perfectly average length legs. Adjusting your seat distance helps a lot as well.

Seriously though, if someone has man-sized feet and can keep their heel on the floor what the hell does it matter? For me it makes everything smoother and faster. I can find the engagement point with ease. For others, they're probably better off kicking if they have little baby feet that don't reach from floor to pedal.

For me kicking is sloppy and I don't have the same kind of fine motor control with my thigh and knee vs my calf and ankle. It's like the difference between using your bicep and elbow to draw vs your fingers and wrist. One is much more precise than the other.

Meh, it's just muscle memory. Sure, it might be easier to learn using your ankle, but after a bit of practice and daily driving, I'm pretty damn precise with my clutch leg

[kuhlka]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

I like to drive with something closer to a "race driver" position, with the wheel close in, elbows and knees comfortably bent, back straight and molded to the seat back.

It also lets me operate the clutch fast with my whole leg. That's more power than just using the ankle and much faster.

If you need your whole leg to operate the 86's stock extra soft clutch pedal you might want to look into doing squats and calf raises. Even my pregnant wife can keep her heel on the floor and modulate our stiffer-than-stock 05 STI clutch.

Otherwise, the rest sounds great.

#brodoyouevenkettlebell

[kuhlka]

Originally Posted by chas3wba0

Meh, it's just muscle memory. Sure, it might be easier to learn using your ankle, but after a bit of practice and daily driving, I'm pretty damn precise with my clutch leg

Different strokes for different folks. Really the whole argument between the two ways are like Billy Madison arguing shampoo vs conditioner in the tub. Fun to BS and pontificate, but ultimately it boils down to what works for individual people. Sorry if I got extra snarky in this thread. I slept from 11pm-1am and have been wide awake since.

I might get the STI out tomorrow for a comparison video of the two clutch techniques to compare and contrast, then joke that the paddles have rendered manual obsolete. Controversy seems to garner views and cash flow.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by kuhlka

Seriously though, if someone has man-sized feet and can keep their heel on the floor what the hell does it matter?

It encourages lazy habits like riding the clutch or half-clutching that cause your clutch to burn up at 60K miles.

[chas3wba0]

Originally Posted by kuhlka

Different strokes for different folks. Really the whole argument between the two ways are like Billy Madison arguing shampoo vs conditioner in the tub. Fun to BS and pontificate, but ultimately it boils down to what works for individual people. Sorry if I got extra snarky in this thread. I slept from 11pm-1am and have been wide awake since.

I might get the STI out tomorrow for a comparison video of the two clutch techniques to compare and contrast, then joke that the paddles have rendered manual obsolete. Controversy seems to garner views and cash flow.

Agreed, to each their own. Both ways work, both have their merits, no point trying to argue that either one is the "correct" way

[Hanni_0176]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

Smooth shifts means smooth pedal engagement and disengagement also, between throttle and clutch (one of the reasons I hate a non-linear dbw throttle with dead space at the top), you declutch to the engagement point, and smoothly let out from there, with enough throttle application to hold the revs AFTER you rev match.

The key to smooth is to hold engine rpms as smoothly as possible through the clutch disengagement to reengagement process. Rev matching helps here massively.

Your grip on the shifter matters nill. The shifter only changes the gear selection, and the smoothness comes after gears are changed, so it's all in your pedal control to control throttle and clutch.

Think of it as a balancing act where you know where your revs are going to be after clutch reengagement in your newly selected gear, and you blip throttle to get as close to that as you can and hold that rev through the re-engagement. Motion of the car will keep the transmission spinning at the right speed after the new gear is selected, so you only need control the engine flywheel speed to mate up with that.

The closer you get to that when the clutch reengages, the less jolts (if any) that you'll feel. Your throttle pedal IS your engine to transmission synchro, effectively.

Balance and smooth. Then you just have to practice this. You'll fail at first, but then you'll have instances where you suddenly feel what smooth means and you'll start to learn how smooth should feel and your feet will begin to learn how to do that.

It's all about the downshifts. Upshifts are smooth by nature, as the engine is slowed down as it naturally wants to, so it smoothly upshifts. It's the downshifts which are harder, b/c left to itself, the engine will be forced to speed up (which it doesn't want to), and will resist it some, which slows down the process and that unbalances things and you feel the car lurch as the engine resists, speeds up, and your speed on the road drops. It's more pronounced in AWD cars as you'll get more driveline shock that way.

On starts, it's also about balancing, as you need to bring the engine speed up to where it will still have sufficient torque to pull the car from a dead stop when the clutch re-engages. Bring your revs up and smoothly let out, just like on a downshift, but you may slow down the clutch re-engagement and lightly slip it as the car gets going, then continue to let out the pedal smoothly once you have felt the car grab enough of the road sufficiently. Smooth, smooth, smooth here. Otherwise you're going to get jerked around or stall.

The only way to get this right is to go out and work at it in normal driving.

Edit: Here's an easy mantra to remember. It is taught when teaching folks how to safely draw a loaded firearm to full presentation quickly: slow is smooth, smooth is fast. You don't TRY and be slow or fast, you try and be SMOOTH. Be smooth, and stay smooth, and then try to be smooth a little quicker but no quicker than you can maintain smoothness. Effectively: slow is smooth, smooth is fast. This applies to drawing a firearm for real-world OH SHIT defensive use, shooting competition where you have to draw from the holster, autoX, street driving, typing on a keyboard, juggling, effectively anything that requires swift, precise, coordinated movement (for some of these things: under high stress when your fine dexterity suddenly takes a vacation and all you're left with is your gross dexterity).

Say it to yourself all the time when you feel impatient or even when you don't feel impatient: Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Be smooth.

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