Poor Sales of Toyota GT86/Scion FR-S Likely To Rule Out New Variants

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by cbf

Frankly, I'm much more concerned about the supposed adults driving their SUV with one hand and holding their phone to their face with the other and who I see all the time on my daily commute.

Agreed, but you know where they started getting that habit, right? As teenagers, driving distracted with friends in the car, or yacking on their flip phones.

Most Americans don't want stick b/c honestly they don't like to have to drive. They'd be perfectly happy if the car drove itself.

So, b/c they drive a numb, boring automatic, they get bored and distract themselves.

Whereas we learn to pay MORE attention b/c we 1) like driving, 2) road conditions keep us more informed, & 3) driving stick in a small car demands attention be on the road & other cars.

I'm on my phone so if I make mistakes, blame Sportsguy83

[daiheadjai]

Originally Posted by asnoir

Hello ! I'm in France in European Union and here the Gt86 cost 35700 US dollar. You must add 4947 US dollar to drive in France. It's a Green Tax!!!! Then the car cost 40700 US dollar!!!!
Toyota have made error with this car! Every month since the release of the car. Rumors from Toyota, journalist... have sayed that the next 86 could be with a KERS engine, a 2.5l engine, with new intake and exhaust to reach 250 ps. And more... Cabriolet, Sedan.
After that here in Europe we wait for the new version.

Thanks for the update.
We often forget that in North America, car ownership is a much more affordable proposition than elsewhere.

Especially if "elsewhere" is hobbled by various eco fees/green taxes (and I suspect) tariffs/import duties (Europe is just as, if not more, protective of their own industries as any other region in the world).

[racecat]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

Most Americans don't want stick b/c honestly they don't like to have to drive. They'd be perfectly happy if the car drove itself.

So, b/c they drive a numb, boring automatic, they get bored and distract themselves.

Whereas we learn to pay MORE attention b/c we 1) like driving, 2) road conditions keep us more informed, & 3) driving stick in a small car demands attention be on the road & other cars.

A thousand times yes. I'm forever grateful to my mom for teaching me to drive stick and I will never let a child of mine go without that knowledge, whether or not they enjoy driving (...if they don't, I'm going to need a maternity test =P).

Even I get a little bored in automatics, and would probably be careless if I wasn't so uncomfortable with the lack of control I feel without a stick.

If cars ever get to the point where they drive themselves, let's build our own society on a massive island with winding roads. =)

[SirBrass]

They're getting to the point of driving themselves. There's already technology in place for cruise control that keeps a car in the lane, brakes for traffic ahead, etc. Basically does freeway driving FOR you.

I took a survey after I got the brz wanting to know my preferences and a large dose was on asking me what "features" were important to me. For those auto-drive features I expressed myself extremely negatively. Not just that they didn't matter to me but that I actively did NOT like or approve of them and that if a car had them it would strongly disincline me to buy it.

I use cruise control AT MOST for fuel economy on long stretches. Though I'm not using it as much any more since I got tuned on stock exhaust/intake, b/c the tune itself, while providing more power, leaned out fuel trims in the right spots (for more power) and that made it more efficient ANYWAY .

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by racecat

If cars ever get to the point where they drive themselves, let's build our own society on a massive island with winding roads. =)

agreed

but on a more serious note-- i don't believe self-driving cars are ever going to fully happen.. if it did, that would make the automaker responsible for any accidents, and i'm not convinced that any automaker is willing to take on that responsibility.

[racecat]

Originally Posted by soundman98

agreed

but on a more serious note-- i don't believe self-driving cars are ever going to fully happen.. if it did, that would make the automaker responsible for any accidents, and i'm not convinced that any automaker is willing to take on that responsibility.

I also agree. That kind of automation just screams BAD IDEA to me.

[Masago88]

Originally Posted by Rakshaa

Honestly it sounds like clever marketing to me as well. Good point this will make some people rush in to get 'one of the last' available frs or brz cars as they may cease production soon. They will then continue to sell them and perhaps introduce an actual GT86 as suggested above instead of limited production monogram.

Where are you in Canada? I'm about to get my car in the next couple weeks

I'm in the GTA area, Oakville to be more specific. I moved over here from Seattle about a year and a half ago, but I was originally born in the GTA. The earliest I'll pick mine up is probably next winter, I saw the Canadian dealerships online were marking down MSRP and finance rates last winter for the 2013 models, so I can only hope/assume they do the same this year for the 2014's. I test drove it last winter and man, all you guys clamoring about power; let me tell you coming from a 98' Camry 4 Cyl 2.2 with 133 hp and over 3000 lbs, felt damn fast.

[whoster]

Dunno if you guys saw this. It's from a conversation regarding the the FT-1 (Supra) concept and the viability of that car coming to the market.

Karl Schlicht is the EVP of Toyota Motor Europe.

Source Link

Naturally, as with most chats with Toyota's people, the conversation went there – you know, about the GT 86 / Scion FR-S and whether there are any concrete plans for a faster edition, to which Schlicht was negative (no surprise there).

"We want to keep that car pure," he said. "You put a turbo on it, give it bigger tyres, and you start turning it into a different category of car..."

[CruiseZen]

If you want to sell more cars you first need to increase product recognition. Less than 10% of the people I know even knew the FR-S existed before I bought mine.

I think the rumors of the twins demise on this thread have been taken too seriously at least for the US. My dealer told me that they sell their FR-S allotted
cars nearly as fast as they arrive. He said they rarely sit on the lot more than two weeks. I think they sold at least 3 FR-S in the month I was waiting for my Monogram to arrive. And that was during an unusually cold period where we had two significant snowfalls. (Here in the south, more than an inch or two of snow leads to the governor declaring a state of emergency. lol)

[regal]

Originally Posted by Deslock

Nonsense. If you don't value low-weight RWD dynamics, then you chose the wrong car:

If you do value low-weight RWD dynamics, then this car is reasonably priced. Simple as that.

This is not a low weight RWD car, an Elise weighs under 2k lbs a first gen Miata a little more. This car feels big and heavy to me and others coming from lightweight cars.


This is a light weight GT car. Its an odd niche' and with low power (as a GT) sales are bound to dry up. IMHO if they don't turbo it will be killed along with Scion in a few years. The chassis will re-appear in some completely different form (sedan, supra-gt, muscle coupe, etc.) to pay capital depreciation.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by regal

This is not a low weight RWD car, an Elise weighs under 2k lbs a first gen Miata a little more. This car feels big and heavy to me and others coming from lightweight cars.

I can name exactly one RWD sports car that you can buy new today for less than $35k that weighs less than the Toyobaru, and it doesn't come with a roof. Am I forgetting something? Hell stretch back 10 years and I'll give you the S2000 (2,755 lbs, a heavyweight by your standards) and MR2, again am I missing a car or two?

Yes it's heavy if you have a long memory but it's hard to argue that it's heavy by today's sports car standards unless you jump up to the $60k budget. If you want new, 'light', RWD, reliable, fun and a semblance of practicality this car really doesn't have any rivals right now.

[regal]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I can name exactly one RWD sports car that you can buy new today for less than $35k that weighs less than the Toyobaru, and it doesn't come with a roof. Am I forgetting something? Hell stretch back 10 years and I'll give you the S2000 (2,755 lbs, a heavyweight by your standards) and MR2, again am I missing a car or two?

Yes it's heavy if you have a long memory but it's hard to argue that it's heavy by today's sports car standards unless you jump up to the $60k budget. If you want new, 'light', RWD, reliable, fun and a semblance of practicality this car really doesn't have any rivals right now.

Why is the era a factor when comparing cars, they become "used" the day you drive off the lot? A car is a car no matter when it was born.


You are right that it is much more expensive to build a quality lightweight car that meets today's regs but the car that started as an FT-86 became a GT-86.


And they could have made it lighter without adding cost, its girthy, the wheelbase is huge and the back seat is pointless.


The S2K was highly critiqued for its heft and the MR2 never weighed as much as the GT-86, the last true sports car with a Toyota badge was the MR-2(S) that weighed 500+ lbs less than our big GT's.


There is nothing wrong with all this, a light GT makes a great all round ride.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by regal

Why is the era a factor when comparing cars, they become "used" the day you drive off the lot? A car is a car no matter when it was born.

I get your point, I just kinda went 'wtf' at your assertion:

Originally Posted by regal

This is not a low weight RWD car

Followed by comparing it to a car that was designed 20 years ago and a car that costs 2x as much. All I mean to say is that this is one of the lightest RWD cars you can buy built in the last decade. Hooray for crumple zones, side curtain airbags and a 6 speed gearbox!

If you really want to compare the Toyobaru in a bad light, look at the original 911S, adjusted for inflation comes in under $50k today, 180 hp from a 2.0L, under 2,300 lbs, four seats and of course RWD. That was nearly fifty years ago. My how far we've come? They complained about the power back then too talking about the gearing being bad for hills and having to downshift to pass on the highways and all the other garbage we still babble about today like the OEM tires...

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ad-test-review

[Mikem53]

The Elise is Impractical for real world everyday use. If you can fit in one.. They make great track cars. Miata is too diminutive in looks and actual size. These cars don't directly compare to the twins..
The FRS is loaded with today's protective crap.. So it's a bit portly in comparison.. But less fat than most anything else in production in its class. But there is so much more useable room.. Seems the other cars are just too small to be enjoyed on a daily basis for most.. . The twins are practical as a DD and weekend racer.. My gkids love the backseat!
So I welcome the extra space in this well throughout compromise..
Call it what you want and classify it all day.. and the demise of scion..
This is a great little sports car.. You must of thought so too at some time.... Or why Would you have bought one?

Originally Posted by regal

This is not a low weight RWD car, an Elise weighs under 2k lbs a first gen Miata a little more. This car feels big and heavy to me and others coming from lightweight cars.


This is a light weight GT car. Its an odd niche' and with low power (as a GT) sales are bound to dry up. IMHO if they don't turbo it will be killed along with Scion in a few years. The chassis will re-appear in some completely different form (sedan, supra-gt, muscle coupe, etc.) to pay capital depreciation.