No factory turbos for GT86 says Karl Schlicht (Toyota Motor Europe VP)

[fatoni]

i just dont get all the buzz around this idea. im pretty sure he said the same thing years ago. if you want a more powerful frs, buy a cayman. its already a thing. on the other hand, owners glad about this is also puzzling. the existence of a turbo or more powerful car doesnt change the car you bought in any capacity.

the car does its job pretty well. if you want to accomplish something else, buy a different car.

[Mikem53]

Good... keep it pure..

[jonboy99]

Originally Posted by subiestyle

even with a turbo in the brz, it would not compete with the wrx.

awd and 4 doors vs rwd and 2 seater.

a turbo brz would compete with the bmw 2 series.

This. Why people think there would be many people cross shopping an awd 4 seater sedan with a 2 seater rwd sports coupe, just because they are made by the same manufacturer is beyond me.

[Ponwh]

awww so no power upgrade? ((

[boredom.is.me]

Originally Posted by Ponwh

awww so no power upgrade? ((

You drive a Supra. I no see why sad.

[Tromatic]

Originally Posted by Wise

Great news for early adopters who don't want to be forced to upgrade.

Bad news for the people who are waiting for the supposed turbo version.

I was looking at my paperwork, worried that there was a provision in there "forcing" me to upgrade.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by gymratter

im pretty sure this is new news.

Here's an article from 2011:
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/...2-CAR-review-/

"Turbocharging the flat-four would be straightforward (after all, that’s what Subaru does with the Impreza), but chief engineer Tetsuya Tada told us that he ‘doesn’t like turbos’ and has ‘decided to reject the numeric power war’."

2012:
http://blog.caranddriver.com/confirm...be-eventually/

There's other articles but those two came up first when I searched for the car and turbo.

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by DSOmegaX

You don't just utilize another company's full manufacturing resources without having a proper contract in place. It's the same reason why you don't expect Subaru to change their assembly process on Toyota's own decisions of what they want to pursue with the car (it would require significant resources to re-validate/re-certify the process). Besides the DI system, what components are Toyota's own? It would mean if Toyota wanted to increase the displacement, they would have to source Subaru's engines in the future as a primary supplier...that, or put in their own engine. Subaru, on the other hand, can just remove Toyota's DI system and put in their own.

I don't doubt there's a contract. I'm only asking where the proof of it ending in 2015 is and what the details consist of.

I'm also not suggesting Toyota's going to go out and make a modified boxer engine without Subaru. I was only implying them working together as they have been to make a new 2.2-2.5L or something. Subaru can then later utilize that engine with the rest of their line-up as they did with the FA20.

And what components are Toyota's you ask? So far I have found:

Toyota/Aisin Transmission
Toyota/JTEKT/Koyo Wheel Bearings/Hubs
Toyota/JTEKT/Torsen Limited Slip Differential
Toyota/JTEKT/Denso Electric Power Steering
Toyota/Denso/Bosch ABS/EBD/VSC/TRAC
Toyota/Denso Direct Fuel Injectors
Toyoda Gosei Fuel Tank Inlet and Cap
Denso/Kyosan Fuel Pump
Denso Iridium Spark Plugs
Denso A/C Components
Denso Radiator
Denso Sensors
Denso ECU
Denso Airbox and Filter (Toyota Size)
Denso HID Ballast
Aisin (Advics) Brake Discs and Pads
Toyota Boshoku Seats
Toyoda Gosei Airbags
Toyoda Gosei Steering Wheel
Toyota/Tokai Rika Clockspring and Multi-Function Switches
Toyota/Denso/Tokai Rika Keys/Remote/Immobilizer
Toyota/Denso/Aisin Smart Keyless System
Toyota/Aisin/Pioneer Navigation System
Denso Instrument Cluster

Toyota Aerodynamics
Toyota Exterior and Interior Design
Toyota's influence on the engine (86 bore and stroke, DI, etc.)

Many of these parts are not typical for Subaru at all. And let's not forget, Subaru is largely owned by Toyota now. They already utilize Subaru's plants to assemble some of their Toyota models.

[Wise]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i just dont get all the buzz around this idea. im pretty sure he said the same thing years ago. if you want a more powerful frs, buy a cayman. its already a thing. on the other hand, owners glad about this is also puzzling. the existence of a turbo or more powerful car doesnt change the car you bought in any capacity.

the car does its job pretty well. if you want to accomplish something else, buy a different car.

It totally changes it. People don't want to own the lesser version.

I'd be forced to upgrade if a turbo model were introduced. So I'm glad the temptation isn't there.

[headlikeahole]

Why are people so wrapped up in this more power bandwagon? If you have one already you know it wont get any better. If you don't have one then now is as good a time as any to buy one.

Want more power, there's lots of options for that. The AE86 wasn't fast even by 80s standards, it was simply a good starting point, thats the spirit of the twins as well.

[Hanni_0176]

Originally Posted by Wise

It totally changes it. People don't want to own the lesser version.

I'd be forced to upgrade if a turbo model were introduced. So I'm glad the temptation isn't there.

Unless they are drastically changing engine components, you wouldn't be forced into anything. Either you purchase the OEM turbo parts and have the dealership install them (which shouldn't affect the warranty at all), or you visit the Forced Induction section of this forum and upgrade to what is more than likely a better turbo kit for less money than the OEM turbo would be.

However, what I'd really like to see is a re-implementation of VVTL-i, which would easily get us to 240+ bhp. The Celica GT-S has almost 30% more bhp than the Celica GT. 28.5% more hp out of the FA20 would put us at nearly 260 bhp (257). Perfect amount of power in stock form, maintains natural aspiration, would be a better platform to mod from, and could lay all of the "S2000 is so much better" arguments to rest. And yes, a mid-cycle refresh like that would force me into upgrading, which I'd have no problems doing.

EDIT: Quoted the wrong post. Sorry strat.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Hanni_0176

Unless they are drastically changing engine components, you wouldn't be forced into anything. Either you purchase the OEM turbo parts and have the dealership install them (which shouldn't affect the warranty at all), or you visit the Forced Induction section of this forum and upgrade to what is more than likely a better turbo kit for less money than the OEM turbo would be.

However, what I'd really like to see is a re-implementation of VVTL-i, which would easily get us to 240+ bhp. The Celica GT-S has almost 30% more bhp than the Celica GT. 28.5% more hp out of the FA20 would put us at nearly 260 bhp (257). Perfect amount of power in stock form, maintains natural aspiration, would be a better platform to mod from, and could lay all of the "S2000 is so much better" arguments to rest. And yes, a mid-cycle refresh like that would force me into upgrading, which I'd have no problems doing.

EDIT: Quoted the wrong post. Sorry strat.

260hp out of this car would put it above a 911 GT3 and a Ferrari 458 in specific power. That's not going to happen just from a variable valve lift system. It would have to be combined with a raised redline (9k?), along with strengthened internals.

[Hanni_0176]

Originally Posted by chrisl

260hp out of this car would put it above a 911 GT3 and a Ferrari 458 in specific power. That's not going to happen just from a variable valve lift system. It would have to be combined with a raised redline (9k?), along with strengthened internals.

VVTL-i does raise the redline... the Celica GT's 1ZZ-FE engine redlines somewhere between 6600-6800 rpm's and the Celica GT-S's 2ZZ-GE engine redlines somewhere between 7800-8200 (depends on the model and market I think). The 1ZZ makes peak horsepower at 6400 rpm and the 2ZZ makes peak horsepower at 7600 rpm. The whole point of the "lift and duration" dual profile cam lobes is to increase the redline and high-end performance without sacrificing idle, low-end performance, and emissions and mpg (at cruising rpm's).

The Celica GT had 140 bhp, the Celica GT-S had 180 bhp. That's roughly a 28.5% increase. The GT-S does have a higher compression ratio also (11.5:1 vs 10.0:1), but still. 28.5% would be 257 bhp, so even without increasing our c/r further, I still think VVTL-i would be good for at least 240 bhp...

EDIT: And yes, obviously some of the engines internal components would have to be changed. The cams, for one. Valves (springs, stems, whatever) for two. Possibly higher flowing heads. Plus whatever else. I dunno. I'd look at the changes between the 1ZZ and 2ZZ for a more definitive answer of what might need changed, as a reference point, if you want more infos.

Also, the S2k was making 240 bhp over 10 years ago with VTEC-i (similar to VVTL-i), no direct injection, and a lower compression ratio, so I don't see what the GT3 or 458 have to do with it.

EDIT 2: http://www.spyderchat.com/enginedetail.htm

[airjonny]

Just give it more power. Idc how. Just do it please.