December Fastrack

[Scooby South]

Full and Solo specific, some classing items that might be of interest.

Full December Fastrack

December Solo Fastrack

Bill

[G_Ride]

It should be interesting combining STC with STS for 2015. Since E85 is banned next year for ST* I appreciate banning any pump gas above 95 octane for 2015.

[whataboutbob]

Looks like no 100 octane allowed in ST now: #9999 E85 Comments

[BlaineWasHere]

Yay!

[aaronosaurus]

HAHA, somebody peed in ESP's cheerios! That was a move just waiting to happen, but I still think boost buggies vs. pony cars is a decent matchup.

[Sccabrz192]

I cannot believe that they are proposing to move the WRX and Talon from ESP. What a joke.

Also would LOVE to know how they plan to police and enforce 95 Octane. Are they going to have octane test equipment on hand and syphon your tank if there is a protest? better make sure you still have a liter of fuel left at the end of your runs.... what is this F1??

[Scooby South]

^^^^ yep.. agreed..
Looks like somebody was trying to reclass the twins again too.. sigh..


Bill

[Davidss]

Originally Posted by G_Ride

I appreciate banning any pump gas above 95 octane for 2015.

Originally Posted by whataboutbob

Looks like no 100 octane allowed in ST now: #9999 E85 Comments

Originally Posted by BlaineWasHere

Yay!

The octane limit is just a proposal. So if you are in favor (or not) you should should write in feedback to www.sebscca.com

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by Sccabrz192

.... what is this F1??

well, how else are you going to make the series fair for those that don't have the time and money to go to the ridiculous lengths of not only buying race gas but also tuning for race gas in what is supposed to be a daily driver in a grassroots motorsport event?

quite honestly the tire rule changes took a decade too long.

if you want slicks and race gas, then it's time to move up a notch.

as for the actual execution, it's a sad state that the first thing you're thinking of is someone disregarding the rules and cheat to get ahead.

but i suppose it will go the way of any other hidden mod, anyone driving too fast might get protested.

[Sccabrz192]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

well, how else are you going to make the series fair for those that don't have the time and money to go to the ridiculous lengths of not only buying race gas but also tuning for race gas in what is supposed to be a daily driver in a grassroots motorsport event?

quite honestly the tire rule changes took a decade too long.

if you want slicks and race gas, then it's time to move up a notch.

as for the actual execution, it's a sad state that the first thing you're thinking of is someone disregarding the rules and cheat to get ahead.

but i suppose it will go the way of any other hidden mod, anyone driving too fast might get protested.

I don't disagree with your point on daily driver cars in a grassroots amateur event should be limited to typically available pump gas, but calling it going to "ridiculous lengths" is quite the exaggeration for effect. And FWIW, 100 octane is still a street legal pump-gas. So to that point, why stop at 95, or 93... a large portion of the Western US caps out at 91 for premium, should we stop there since it's unfair to people who are local to those areas?

I adamantly disagree with your point about it being "sad" that I am concerned about the ability to enforce a rule. YOU CANNOT expect people to follow a rule which isn't enforceable. That's one of the first topics of a high school civics class when discussing legislation.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by Sccabrz192

YOU CANNOT expect people to follow a rule which isn't enforceable.

okay, tell me then how:

1. swaybars are enforced? all i have to do is paint a swaybar black and unless soemone is gonna get on their knees and take a look-see with a caliper.. (and knowing what the oem bar diamater is), no one's gonna touch you

2. bushings? i could put engine and transmission bushing upgrades on my car and no one will ever know, and if you're sneaky enough you could even do the diff/rear crossmember

not sure if subaru made any group-N stuff that fits into the BRZ/FRS parts, but you can do all the bushings with group-N without anyone ever knowing

3. shocks witha adjustable perches... must be set to "oem" height... and what is that pray tell? 1/4 inch here and there, who's gonna know?


4. and engine mods? who's ever gonna know in stock class whether i got cams in there or a thinner headgasket or lighter internals, blueprinted?

how is that enforced?


again i'm not disagreeing that laws shouldn't be enforcable, but at the same time a certain level of trust is required.

social legislation deals with millions of people, but the weekend racers are generally a close community of people, anyone cheating for too long is going to get weeded out eventually. Sometimes it's just easier to trust people and not worry about the nitty gritty.

[Sccabrz192]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

okay, tell me then how:

1. swaybars are enforced? all i have to do is paint a swaybar black and unless soemone is gonna get on their knees and take a look-see with a caliper.. (and knowing what the oem bar diamater is), no one's gonna touch you

2. bushings? i could put engine and transmission bushing upgrades on my car and no one will ever know, and if you're sneaky enough you could even do the diff/rear crossmember

not sure if subaru made any group-N stuff that fits into the BRZ/FRS parts, but you can do all the bushings with group-N without anyone ever knowing

3. shocks witha adjustable perches... must be set to "oem" height... and what is that pray tell? 1/4 inch here and there, who's gonna know?


4. and engine mods? who's ever gonna know in stock class whether i got cams in there or a thinner headgasket or lighter internals, blueprinted?

how is that enforced?


again i'm not disagreeing that laws shouldn't be enforcable, but at the same time a certain level of trust is required.

social legislation deals with millions of people, but the weekend racers are generally a close community of people, anyone cheating for too long is going to get weeded out eventually. Sometimes it's just easier to trust people and not worry about the nitty gritty.

At nationals you are required to jack the car up, remove a wheel and open hood and trunk to allow access for your competitors to review the car. At a local/divisional, no there is a lot more good faith practiced. Things like illegal bushings, sway bars, illegal ride height, and external engine mods are fairly easy to review and point out with a visual inspection with a wheel removed and the car on a jack stand. Internals and tuning, yes, more complicated... but you can do a simple compression check or download the ECU data to check for other illegal internal modifications... it wouldn't be the first time an engine has been torn down due to a protest either. So yes, the vast majority of the rules are enforcable.

FWIW, I have never gone around a competitors car looking for things to protest them on... I just want to know that if the governing body is going to create a rule, it can be enforced.... that's all, I didn't really think that required this much discussion.

[7thgear]

google gave me this

http://www.koehlerinstrument.com/products/K88600.html

or this

http://termexlab.ru/eng/products/pet...ter/octane-im/

[Davidss]

Originally Posted by Sccabrz192

I just want to know that if the governing body is going to create a rule, it can be enforced....

FYI - The octane limit can be enforced easily. That was a prerequisite for putting this out for comment.

Originally Posted by 7thgear

1. swaybars are enforced?
2. bushings?
3. shocks witha adjustable perches...
4. and engine mods?

Just to give you some information on how those items might be enforced. In the past when there have been competitors that brought an extra OEM shock/bar with them to events to use as a comparison measurement. As far as engine mods there are a few tools you are likely unaware of, one tool (the whistler) can be inserted in place of the spark plug and reads out actual compression ratio, and there are boroscopes that can be inserted into the cylinder and can see aftermarket engine parts and even accurately read bore/stroke. An aftermarket cam would fail a simple rockwell hardness test. And these engine checks only take a few minutes and require little to no disassembly.