STILLEN & AP Racing Unveils Radi-CAL Brakes

[CSG Mike]

Ah ok. I did have a missed call from him; I'll have @CSG David give him a call... he may be recovering from SEMA still

[wallace03]

You had me at "Formula 1", but you lost me at "more expensive".

[SubieNate]

Originally Posted by wallace03

You had me at "Formula 1", but you lost me at "more expensive".

Should have expected the latter when you heard the former.

[Hanakuso]

What part of these brakes were used in NASCAR and F1? I'm assuming you meant the brand and some of the tech?

[Team STILLEN]

The asymmetrical design and forged construction was originally used in Formula 3. After its huge success there it was then used in both Formula 1 and Nascar. The design and functionality is the same. However (as a lot of you I'm sure know), Nascar and Formula 1 use a smaller diameter brake rotor that is much thicker. The Formula 1 and Nascar kits don't work on most (if not all) production cars. So we worked with AP to develop kits for production vehicles.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Team STILLEN

The asymmetrical design and forged construction was originally used in Formula 3. After its huge success there it was then used in both Formula 1 and Nascar. The design and functionality is the same. However (as a lot of you I'm sure know), Nascar and Formula 1 use a smaller diameter brake rotor that is much thicker. The Formula 1 and Nascar kits don't work on most (if not all) production cars. So we worked with AP to develop kits for production vehicles.

Would a smaller ID and thus a lower moment of inertia, with a larger mass for heat sinking, provide better for overall performance? I'm sure if a rotor were made too small it wouldn't have sufficient torque to do the job, but I've often wondered about this when I see advertising for BBK.

[Team STILLEN]

Smalled diameter does lower the moment of inertia and the thicker rotor provides larger mass for heat sink and dissipation. Nascar has regulations on wheel size and F1 has their own set of rules as well as their own physics calculations that make the torque on the rotor less important. Also the cars are so light it is a different ballgame. The thickness of the rotors used in Nascar and F1 are way too wide for production cars so a AP Radical System from one of these cars would never work.

There are a lot of factors when figuring picking out and building a BBK to consider that go beyond my scope of expertise. I know we are looking into making kits that fit smaller wheels but nothing is official or final yet.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Calum

Would a smaller ID and thus a lower moment of inertia, with a larger mass for heat sinking, provide better for overall performance? I'm sure if a rotor were made too small it wouldn't have sufficient torque to do the job, but I've often wondered about this when I see advertising for BBK.

IMO, Yes.

You really want the rotor to be as small as possible while having the capacity to absorb and eventually remove heat from the system. There's a limit on how small both based on thermal mass and brake torque of course. The pros use a LOT of cooling that isn't practical on production based cars also.

This is why I'm not a fan of most big brake kits. They are needlessly big. Why increase the thermal mass to a point where you can NEVER actually get close to it's capacity? You just slow the car down in every way without any actual benefit under braking. Sure, you get more torque, which can be good and bad depending on your goals and what you are trying to fix.

[Team STILLEN]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

This is why I'm not a fan of most big brake kits. They are needlessly big. Why increase the thermal mass to a point where you can NEVER actually get close to it's capacity? You just slow the car down in every way without any actual benefit under braking. Sure, you get more torque, which can be good and bad depending on your goals and what you are trying to fix.

That's especially true for smaller cars like the Twins. Mustangs and GTRs will actually utilize the bigger brakes because of their weight and the higher speeds they can reach on some tracks. Also most of the cars we have the kits for use 19 inch+ wheels from the factory. A lot of times people go way too big on their BBK's and slow themselves down when they don't want to. I have seen this on MR2's where someone with a BBK running 17's did not brake or accelerate as well as the same car on 15's with 94+ Turbo brakes.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Is this meant to be a more performance offering or a all-around offering? Are you or Eric more versed in this product for chatting? I'd like to discuss possible track applications, but it'll be heavily dependent on the pad backing plate shape, and how easily pads are obtained for the setup. Our current AP Racing setup has virtually every pad on the market available for it, and it makes for very easy testing on our end.

I'm assuming that these are CP8520/21 or 22 calipers. They use the CP7555D74 pad shape. They are aluminum piston calipers with dust seals. They are forged, but two piece (I'm not against two piece calipers, just saying). Anti rattle springs for the pads, etc. They are a street caliper but should hold up fine for the track.

Looks like a new shape, for AP at least. Info here: http://www.apracing.com/product_deta...cp7555d74.aspx

If I was really bored I'd hunt through pad catalogues to fine a more standardized pad shape to search for.. but..

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Team STILLEN

That's especially true for smaller cars like the Twins. Mustangs and GTRs will actually utilize the bigger brakes because of their weight and the higher speeds they can reach on some tracks. Also most of the cars we have the kits for use 19 inch+ wheels from the factory. A lot of times people go way too big on their BBK's and slow themselves down when they don't want to. I have seen this on MR2's where someone with a BBK running 17's did not brake or accelerate as well as the same car on 15's with 94+ Turbo brakes.

Mmmmm SW20s...

What were we talking about again?

[Team STILLEN]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I'm assuming that these are CP8520/21 or 22 calipers. They use the CP7555D74 pad shape. They are aluminum piston calipers with dust seals. They are forged, but two piece (I'm not against two piece calipers, just saying). Anti rattle springs for the pads, etc. They are a street caliper but should hold up fine for the track.

Looks like a new shape, for AP at least. Info here: http://www.apracing.com/product_deta...cp7555d74.aspx

I'm pretty sure its a new pad shape. Currently they are being made as a street/track caliper. They do allow for drop in pads for track (though not the full race design). We may have a full track version in the future.

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Mmmmm SW20s...

What were we talking about again?

LOL, my brother has one with a 3rd gen. Still love them and miss mine sometimes

[Captain Snooze]

*dons skeptic hat*
@Team STILLEN
I have read that the Essex Sprint Kit has been tested (read abused) by Dave-ROR and CSGMike and both have found that the kit is up to the task of handling their punishment. I have also read that 6 piston calipers are over kill for this car. What performane gains are there to be had with these new Radi-CAL Brakes over the Sprint kit?
*Removes hat*

[Anthonytpt]

+5 to all braking
+10 agility
+11-15% movement speed
+1 random magic properties
Item Level: 60

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

*dons skeptic hat*
@Team STILLEN
I have read that the Essex Sprint Kit has been tested (read abused) by Dave-ROR and CSGMike and both have found that the kit is up to the task of handling their punishment. I have also read that 6 piston calipers are over kill for this car. What performane gains are there to be had with these new Radi-CAL Brakes over the Sprint kit?
*Removes hat*