Brake Pads: Stop Tech Street Performance vs. Ferodo DS2500 vs. Carbotech XP10?

[Smurfette]

Hello! I just bought a 2013 BRZ yesterday as a track toy, and named her Smurfette. I'm reading about what to do to get her track ready and carefully reviewed the brake pad thread. The car currently has Stop Tech Street Performance pads that are low, so I was planning on putting on a new pair (front and rear) and doing a brake flush with Motul 600, as both were completed ~20k miles ago. The car also has my favorite tire, the Michelin Pilot Super Sport. I will probably use the car as a daily once or twice a week.

Is there anything else I need to do to prepare the car? My goal is to last an entire track day and not experience any brake fade. I know the Ferodo DS2500 and Carbotech XP10 are favored, but they are also a lot more expensive (2-3x). Is it worth it?

I have a decent amount of track experience in a Porsche Cayman S. I've always run OEM brakes/fluids and had it maintained by the dealer and independent shops, so I'm very new to self-prep and maintenance. I've never had any brake fade with the Porsche.

If brakes fade towards the end of a session, do I need to bleed them or just let them cool down to work again? I hope to do 1-2 track days a month, maybe explore some twisty roads, and meet other enthusiasts in NorCal!

[SeanRTR]

If you're ***** footing around the track, the Stoptech's will be fine. If you're actually pushing the car in the brake zones, they simply aren't going to work well for more than 3-4 laps being driven hard.


I just ran these pads at Mid Ohio over the weekend, and as predicted, I had to baby the brakes to get them to last the full 15 minute session. Running them hard would cause them to fade after just 3 laps. Great autocross pad, not quite up to track duty.

[Smurfette]

What brake pads would you recommend for hard driving/braking? I've read that the Hawk HPS isn't that great...

[drewbot]

My experience on 2 pads you listed on our local track:

StopTech: 1.5 laps, severe fading and no bueno
Ferodo 2500 (Ok, well I used Project Mu 800, same category): 3 laps, faded
Carbotech XP10: used by many locals here, loud AF, no direct experience

[DAEMANO]

@Smurfette

Also checkout Winmax W2 or W3 for street/hpde - AutoX/Track duty.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68486

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65164

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71961

[Pat]

While both compounds you listed are very good, neither will hold up to a 20 minute session when the BRZ/FRS is driven at its limit. They will likely be safe, but performance will degrade. At a minimum you will need ducts and good fluid.
If you are not driving the car at its limit, you may be able to get away with using either of the two compounds you asked about.

[CSG David]

Perhaps I can help with your application?

[SeanRTR]

Originally Posted by Smurfette

What brake pads would you recommend for hard driving/braking? I've read that the Hawk HPS isn't that great...

My student at this track day has a 2500lb Integra GSR, similar power to our cars, last years BFG Rival tires, and he had a fresh set of Hawk Street/Race compound, (these are a DTC-30 pad redesigned for the street to operate at lower temp), and I was very impressed with his pads. A few times I thought he pushed the limits on the brake zones, but those pads stopped us just fine. He did get some 'shake' in the steering wheel, but I imagine he just had warped rotors from doing a track day on the same rotors the previous year. He had Hawk HP+ on the car the previous year, and he said those were not up to the task of Mid Ohio. He was very happy with the new Hawk Street/Race compound. That's my recommendation.


A break down of the Hawk compounds that most common:
Hawk ceramic - For old people who don't want to hear or see brake dust....ever
Hawk HPS - basic OEM upgrade, good for autocross/street
Hawk HP+ - dedicated autocross pad, great initial bite, maybe suitable for light track use
Hawk Street/Race - a DTC-30 compound with lower operating tempatures for the street. Designed to not make your ABS go crazy, up for track day usage. Will dust, and will make noise on the street.
Hawk DT60's - Dedicated road racing pad. Requires a bit of heat to work, should not fade, track use only.
Hawk DTC70 - Same as above, but better suited for heavy cars (3000lbs+), and more than capable of endurance racing.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Smurfette

Is there anything else I need to do to prepare the car? My goal is to last an entire track day and not experience any brake fade. I know the Ferodo DS2500 and Carbotech XP10 are favored, but they are also a lot more expensive (2-3x). Is it worth it?

If the bolded part above is your goal, definitely go with the XP10's.

Stoptech's are good value IMO, but if you're running at the typical intermediate/solo pace (or faster), you will need to back off after 3-4 laps.

I haven't tried DS2500's, but they're supposed to be comparable to PMU HC+800's, which I've run and was not impressed by at all.

I'm currently using XP10's up front and love them. A little noisy on the street though.

[CSG David]

I can kill Stoptech in a lap if necessary just to demonstrate a point. DS2500 is decent but that's good for 2-3 laps. XP10 will last for intermediate track drivers.

[glamcem]

for the reference, I've used all of the pads that you listed and hated all of them ..
the thing is there is no "best pad" in general, but there are good pads for the specific type of tire and often times people (including me) mismatch the tires with brake pads..

Like others mentioned above Stoptech will fade at the track and PSS tires are only good for a couple of laps and start feeling greasy after that..

If I were you, I would match Raybestos ST43s with a bit more aggressive tires such as RS3s or Direzza ZIIs for multiple reasons (consistency and cost being the most important ones), there is a good reason most track junkies call them "magic pads" ..

I have been using them for a while and recently got a ST47/ST45 combo to match my Z214s as I believe I can get away with a more aggressive initial bite and there's still room for the sticky R comps.. I also didn't have any issues use them on the street (summer use) ..they're surprisingly not harsh on the rotors as much as other race pads (still not a big deal since we can get centrics for $35 a piece I think, lol)

for mild track use and/or wet, PSS would still work of course (that's what I am getting for my street setup and wet track days, in case it starts raining on the event) but they're not ideal, IMO

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by CSG David

I can kill Stoptech in a lap if necessary just to demonstrate a point. DS2500 is decent but that's good for 2-3 laps. XP10 will last for intermediate track drivers.

I really liked the XP12s for its "OEM-like" feedback and the noise levels but the problem was the pad life, I stilll destroyed them quickly though , that might also have to do with the power levels of the car and it (or even the XP10s) may last longer for an NA car

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by SeanRTR

My student at this track day has a 2500lb Integra GSR, similar power to our cars, last years BFG Rival tires, and he had a fresh set of Hawk Street/Race compound, (these are a DTC-30 pad redesigned for the street to operate at lower temp), and I was very impressed with his pads. A few times I thought he pushed the limits on the brake zones, but those pads stopped us just fine. He did get some 'shake' in the steering wheel, but I imagine he just had warped rotors from doing a track day on the same rotors the previous year. He had Hawk HP+ on the car the previous year, and he said those were not up to the task of Mid Ohio. He was very happy with the new Hawk Street/Race compound. That's my recommendation.


A break down of the Hawk compounds that most common:
Hawk ceramic - For old people who don't want to hear or see brake dust....ever
Hawk HPS - basic OEM upgrade, good for autocross/street
Hawk HP+ - dedicated autocross pad, great initial bite, maybe suitable for light track use
Hawk Street/Race - a DTC-30 compound with lower operating tempatures for the street. Designed to not make your ABS go crazy, up for track day usage. Will dust, and will make noise on the street.
Hawk DT60's - Dedicated road racing pad. Requires a bit of heat to work, should not fade, track use only.
Hawk DTC70 - Same as above, but better suited for heavy cars (3000lbs+), and more than capable of endurance racing.

Hawk HP+ pads chew on the rotors pretty quickly and DTC60 and DTC70s are known by their corrosive dust that hurts both paint and the wheels and even harsher on rotors than any other pads..I have no experience on Auto-X so they might work just fine
if they were a bit more practical I could've considered using them as well, since Tirerack stocks them most of the time and people seem to like them ..

[Lebby83]

I run the DS2500 with Stoptech slotted rotors and have not had a single problem, zero fade. I also run Motul fluid and have stainless brake lines. The car has run numerous days at different tracks with zero issues with that setup.