Wheel studs. Yes, again, but with a twist

[Ohio Enthusiast]

TL;DR - puny cordless ratchet made a lot of shavings in the lug nuts and caused several studs to strip.

I've read all the reports of broken wheel studs and the reports of people doing hundreds of wheel swaps on OEM studs without an issue.
So far I've been fortunate. A few dozens wheel swaps (winter/summer, track day brakes and back, etc.) and I had no issues. Then a few track days ago I noticed some crunchiness in the rear studs. Cleaned up the studs with a wire brush and it helped, but not all the way.

I'm using original studs with Muteki Super Tuner closed end spline nuts.

My method of dealing with the lug nuts was as follows:

1. With the car on the ground but slightly jacked up (i.e. not full weight on the wheels), loosen the lug nuts with a 1/2" manual ratchet
2. Put the car in the air and remove the lug nuts completely by hand
3. When putting back the wheels, turn the lug nuts by hand all the way until they seat
4. Tighten with the 1/2" manual ratchet a bit (as the wheels are still in the air)
5. Lower the car most of the way (again not full weight on the wheels), torque the nuts with a torque wrench to 85 lbft (as suggested by Muteki)

(Edit: when loosening and tightening I always go in a star pattern).
A week ago I decided to buy a cordless ratchet (not impact), an ACDelco ARW1209P, to speed up brake swaps for track. I also used it to spin the lug nuts off and on the wheels. I noticed when spinning the nuts off that there were some metal shavings on the studs that I never saw before when rotating the nuts by hand.

Yesterday after a fun track day I started swapping back to the street wheels and discovered a seized nut on the front wheel. After convincing it to let go it came off without breaking the stud, but it was clearly damaged. Decided to swap the wheel, pray and torque the nut down. Luckily it held and I got home safely.

Today I gambled on removing the wheels again to swap the street brakes back on. The offending lug nut was still partially seized and a few others were beginning to seize as well. Lots of metal shavings on the studs and in the nuts. I ended up putting everything back together and all nuts torqued down fine without breaking.

I'm a little confused why the cordless ratchet made such a mess of the threads - it's basically a powered version of a manual ratchet, with a very similar application of force (plus it's pretty wimpy - advertising 45 lbft but in practice struggling with the caliper slide bolts (torqued to 19 lbft)). Most of the damage is on the studs, but some of the nuts also show some wear on the threads.

OEM length ARP (100-7727) studs ordered for the rears and H&R DRS 15mm spacers with longer studs (3025560) ordered for the fronts.
Wondering if I should bite the bullet and replace the lug nuts as well.

[Clipdat]

Doesn't make sense why steel lugs on steel studs would be chewing up the threads like that. Regardless of manual vs automatic ratchet.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Clipdat

Doesn't make sense why steel lugs on steel studs would be chewing up the threads like that. Regardless of manual vs automatic ratchet.

I agree, hence my confusion. And it's not one or two studs - all 20 had metal shavings, some more and some less.

Once I'll get the ARP and H&R studs I'll experiment with the OEM ones to see the difference between by hand, manual ratchet, the cordless ratchet, a regular drill (not impact) and an air impact.

[Clipdat]

You could try these lugs, I have them and they seem nice: https://www.rallysportdirect.com/par...g-nuts-12x1-25

Seems like the ones you have might have elongated and/or damaged threads, which could be causing this? I'm honestly not sure.

Edit: Not sure with the ARPs if they'll require open ended lugs.

[NoHaveMSG]

I've always understood galling to be caused by friction. It could be you had a flattened thread or two, some debris on the stud or in the lug, and the fact you used the cordless ratchet is a coincidence. It could also be one of those things combined with the speed the ratchet spins the nut on. I always put lugs on by hand.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Clipdat

Seems like the ones you have might have elongated and/or damaged threads, which could be causing this? I'm honestly not sure.

Yeah, not sure where the issue is. Even if the studs are the weak point, there are some signs of marring/damage on the nuts as well. Muteki should be a fairly respected brand, but who knows...

Originally Posted by Clipdat

Edit: Not sure with the ARPs if they'll require open ended lugs.

I'm getting stock length ARP, so closed are fine. I daily it in the winter (with road salt) so open ended wouldn't work that well.

[Clipdat]

I think the ARP studs and new lugs will solve everything!

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

It could be you had a flattened thread or two, some debris on the stud or in the lug, and the fact you used the cordless ratchet is a coincidence.

I would agree more if this was isolated to a few of the studs, but all 20 have shavings with the cordless ratchet where I never had them when spinning by hand. I would squarely put the blame on the cordless ratchet as that was the only thing that changed in my routine (unless all 20 studs and/or all 20 nuts decided to quit at the same time).

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

It could also be one of those things combined with the speed the ratchet spins the nut on. I always put lugs on by hand.

I know plenty of people spin lug nuts completely off with a cordless impact and spin them on with the impact after starting a few threads by hand (I was parked next to a few Twins this event and one a month ago and they ran cordless impacts for the lugs). I'm not against continuing to spin the nuts by hand like I did before, but it would be nice to speed up wheel changes on track.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Now that I think about it some more, a cordless ratchet works in a very start and stop fashion and in small increments. The ratchet has 8.5 degrees of swing (counted 42 clicks when spinning by hand) and it feels like every rotation of the motor drives two or three clicks (so 17 or 25 degrees). I wonder if this has a similar effect to an impact wrench (of intermittent application of torque), only this goes all the way until the nut is off. Most impact wrenches would spin freely once the nut is broken loose (i.e. not engage the hammering of the impact), giving a smooth motion of the nut over the threads.

I wonder if I can get a good Father's Day deal on a cordless impact for track use...

PS, I'm still happy with the cordless ratchet - I bought it for helping with swapping brakes (pads and rotors) for track and it works well for that. I'm down to about an hour and a half for all 4 corners. I think I'm gonna skip it for lugs from now on.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

I would agree more if this was isolated to a few of the studs, but all 20 have shavings with the cordless ratchet where I never had them when spinning by hand. I would squarely put the blame on the cordless ratchet as that was the only thing that changed in my routine (unless all 20 studs and/or all 20 nuts decided to quit at the same time).



I know plenty of people spin lug nuts completely off with a cordless impact and spin them on with the impact after starting a few threads by hand (I was parked next to a few Twins this event and one a month ago and they ran cordless impacts for the lugs). I'm not against continuing to spin the nuts by hand like I did before, but it would be nice to speed up wheel changes on track.

I saw that, really just spitballing here with what I know/have seen. I have used power tools to spin lugs on before, I just usually did it really slow. Ultra and I were talking this weekend and have both noticed the poor thread quality on the stock lugs, but you are not using those.

[villainous_frx]

Though I have never broken an OEM Subaru stud on any of my cars, having APR studs definitely makes me less hesitant to zap the lug nuts on/off after breaking them loose with a breaker bar.

Hopefully the swap is painless for you!

[blsfrs]

I replaced my stock lugs with ARP stock length studs. I had muteki lugs but switched to Mcgard(sp?) because I got tired of chasing their special socket. It seemed to always roll under the middle of the car.

[ZDan]

I just got ARP wheel studs, short/factory-length for my '23...
How tough is installation, do hubs need to be removed?

[Code Monkey]

^ Nope, can install them on the car with no need to pull the hubs.