Modify High Mileage 1st Gen or buy a new 2nd Gen

[Choppa']

So... I am wanting a bit more power. I come from higher horsepower cars (CTS-V, E90 M3, ATS-V) but as you know, consumables are a bit high on those cars for frequent autocross/track use. Last year, I set out to find a lower horsepower car that I could track on the cheap and get a ton of seat time. I purchased a 2013 BRZ with 150k miles on it and have been enjoying it since, pretty much strictly as a track/autocross/time trial car. It is currently set up for SCCA Solo Spec Coupe/T6 (koni yellows, 17x8s rt660s, bars, camber) and has been a relatively trouble free car the past 7 track days and 15 or so autocross. But.... I am yearning for a bit more power. So naturally FI comes to mind as I think a tune/header will only hold me over for a bit. Problem is that the mileage of my current car (155k) is a little off-putting.

I figured it would cost about 5.5k to supercharge the car, but I would probably need another 5-7k ready for another motor, clutch, and any other item that may need to be replaced (my estimations may be off). I am not sure if it would be worth it at that point as the build would be getting within 7k or so of the price of a new base model. (Figure 10k car, plus 10k-12k for supercharger build). This could be cheaper though IF the motor holds, which I am not sure what the likelihood of that would be.

Thoughts from those of you who have built a forced induced 1st gen track weapon...

1. Would you do it again or would you start fresh with a 2nd gen or another platform?

2. What was/is your build cost?

3. How much does mileage play into the reliability factor?

Thoughts from those of you who came from a 1st gen to a 2nd gen

1. Why did you make the switch, was it worth it?

2. How are you liking the power of the 2nd gen?

Thanks in advance

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by Choppa'

So... I am wanting a bit more power. I come from higher horsepower cars (CTS-V, E90 M3, ATS-V) but as you know, consumables are a bit high on those cars for frequent autocross/track use. Last year, I set out to find a lower horsepower car that I could track on the cheap and get a ton of seat time. I purchased a 2013 BRZ with 150k miles on it and have been enjoying it since, pretty much strictly as a track/autocross/time trial car. It is currently set up for SCCA Solo Spec Coupe/T6 (koni yellows, 17x8s rt660s, bars, camber) and has been a relatively trouble free car the past 7 track days and 15 or so autocross. But.... I am yearning for a bit more power. So naturally FI comes to mind as I think a tune/header will only hold me over for a bit. Problem is that the mileage of my current car (155k) is a little off-putting.

I figured it would cost about 5.5k to supercharge the car, but I would probably need another 5-7k ready for another motor, clutch, and any other item that may need to be replaced (my estimations may be off). I am not sure if it would be worth it at that point as the build would be getting within 7k or so of the price of a new base model. (Figure 10k car, plus 10k-12k for supercharger build). This could be cheaper though IF the motor holds, which I am not sure what the likelihood of that would be.

Thoughts from those of you who have built a forced induced 1st gen track weapon...

1. Would you do it again or would you start fresh with a 2nd gen or another platform?

2. What was/is your build cost?

3. How much does mileage play into the reliability factor?

Thoughts from those of you who came from a 1st gen to a 2nd gen

1. Why did you make the switch, was it worth it?

2. How are you liking the power of the 2nd gen?

Thanks in advance

Unless you do the work yourself you’re underestimating the cost of going FI and also the cost of motor replacement

[andys_garage]

ymmv very much on modding the first gen. I believe i saw a dyno comparison at some point vs a modded 1st gen (headers and tune) and a stock 2nd gen... the stock 2nd gen blew the headers+tune 1st gen out of the water.

plus, you misspelled $upercharger because you need to add other cooling/reliability upgrades to handle the boost. you'll just keep finding weak points in the system. it's a deep rabbit hole. cheaper than a 2nd gen car? probably.... worth the headache? probably not. Some people would rather buy parts than cars, don't count me among them.



I came from a GR WRX, and quite frankly the gen 2 has very similar power/weight and is overall a better platform.

[Yoshoobaroo]

I mulled this choice over before I sold my 2013. My stock 2nd Gen feels better than my first gen on headers and E85. If I had to do it over I’d still pick the 2nd Gen over supercharging my 2013

[jflogerzi]

As a dedicated track car the first gen is a great buy but do yourself a favor and keep it NA and add e85 and headers and tune. I would rather have a paid off car at the track in case the unthinkable happens your not upside down on a car that you need to fix. That's just my 2 cents

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[Stonehorsw]

If the car is for track only, I would invest in other mods. Header, tune, weight reductions, (Anthony mode), aero and suspension. This would make the car a really good track car.
The cost for FI is high due to supporting mods.

Regarding gen2, I sold my gen1 and upgraded as this is my daily drive and used car price was weird when I changed the cars. The car is nicer than 1st gen but I would not say it is much faster (ecu not cracked yet), I think is on pair with the gen1/header/e85.

[soundman98]

i've got 2 differing trains of thought on this.

1. the 2nd gen is going to be a better singular solution to more power. that is to say that from the factory, it comes with more power, and extremely similar handling attributes.

the disadvantage is that things are not looking good in terms of tuning the 2nd gen. with the coal-rolling crackdowns on ecu tuning, i seriously question if the 2nd gen will ever have a tune from any company. so while it might be more power than the 1st gen, it might be 'locked' in at that power level, so if you're not happy after the switch, there might not be anything further you can do about it.

2. 1st gens have well documented tuning options. so you could season the car 'to taste' as they say.

disadvantage here could be scca classification of mods--putting you in a faster group that keeps you from being competitive, long term support, and increased maintenance from running the driveline harder than subaru's original specs.

overall, i'd say option 1 is going to be cheaper long term, assuming that the steering ratio changes, and slight power bump is all ok to you. option 2 is going to definitely be more expensive long term, but could be played to your specific driving style or scca classification better.

[Choppa']

Thanks for the responses everyone, it was really helpful. I started looking into the buying process of a new GR86/BRZ.... what a shit show lol. I am 2nd on the list to order a BRZ at MSRP, whenever the ordering/build process resumes. Probably going to be a good 6+months total weight time. GR86s (which I prefer) are just hard to get with Toyotas allocation system. I was able to drive a used base model manual BRZ and it felt similar in all the good ways, just with more power. It is not ground breaking or anything, but it is definitely nice. I have some time to evaluate unless I am lucky to snag a cancelled GR86 or BRZ order but I am leaning towards starting fresh. The price delta between modifying mines and a new base model seems to be worth it for the reliable gains in performance, 10 year gap in age, and 155k gap in mileage.

[strat61caster]

For me the bang for the buck on the 2.4L isn’t there. Yes it’s a great car, but I’d likely have to eat $15k to get into it at this point, for like 30hp gain. At this point of owning this car for almost 10 years I want something different, faster or different driving dynamics, probably a little of both.

If you want a fresh chassis and don’t want to tinker a new 86 is a great option.

[TommyW]

IMO increasing power on a FA20 with 155K miles sound like a bad idea, especially as a track car. When it goes you're looking at 8-12K for replacement. Maybe sell it and buy a low mi Gen 1 and then mod it. Gen 2, while a fantastic car doesn't seem to have the rawness of a Gen 1 and for some of us that is not what we're after. I've had a few 911's and as they got newer, the driving dynamics changed and in many ways, not for the better.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by TommyW

IMO increasing power on a FA20 with 155K miles sound like a bad idea, especially as a track car. When it goes you're looking at 8-12K for replacement. Maybe sell it and buy a low mi Gen 1 and then mod it. Gen 2, while a fantastic car doesn't seem to have the rawness of a Gen 1 and for some of us that is not what we're after. I've had a few 911's and as they got newer, the driving dynamics changed and in many ways, not for the better.

I'd trade a bit of rawness for more whp they my car is making with fbo, e85, and tune out of a totally stock car.

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I'd trade a bit of rawness for more whp they my car is making with fbo, e85, and tune out of a totally stock car.

And that's your decision to make.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Choppa'

The price delta between modifying mines and a new base model seems to be worth it for the reliable gains in performance, 10 year gap in age, and 155k gap in mileage.

I may be missing something but it seems to me the price delta is basically the price delta is really just the price differential of the old vs new car, at least up front.

If you aren't happy with the performance of your 2013, the newer vehicle is only marginally faster meaning you are going to have to make the exact same mods to get what you want.

Ultimately to me it sounds like you just bought the wrong car.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by TommyW

And that's your decision to make.

Sure, but it's not like it's easy to make that power without going FI on the first gen car which I refuse to do. If I were to do the same as my car to a second gen, coils with 10 kg springs, aero, replace most suspension bushings with stiffer poly or heims or get rid of them altogether and go solid mount, you are going to gain a good bit of "rawness" back and I doubt they feel that much different at that point except for the steering racks being different ratio.

Not that I am going second gen. It would take way too much to put my car back to sellable state.