[Irace86.2.0]

Let's recap:

Originally Posted by nikitopo

The new Cayman is an amazing car and pretty much unbelievable to be in same performance category with Supra and M2 which are 6 cylinder engines with turbo. There were some tests recently here in autobahn and it could easily top 275 km/h (170 mph). It could accelerate even more, but not so easy with the traffic. Just incredible result from such a small 2,0 liter engine.

Originally Posted by gymratter

^cuz it weights less, not much too it lol

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Lol. No, you don't get it. Weight helps only in acceleration and especially in low gears. I mentioned top speed which is related mainly with engine's power. None of these cars has a terrible Cd value, so top speed is mainly because of power. I didn't say that Supra doesn't have a powerful engine, but comparing a 4 cylinder with a 6 cylinder engine is a night to day difference. Do you know how much power the 2.0 lt engine in Z4 makes? Porsche is currently WAY FAR from competition in this area.

And by the way... Subaru would be dreaming to have Porsche's engine. They designed the FA20DIT engine some years ago, but they couldn't achieve this result. Only with the EJ20 engines they make it, but they are an outdated design and cannot be sold outside domestic market. Probably Honda is close in engine technology, but not with a boxer design.

Then I mention how all of that was false. The Porsche hits a faster top speed because of gearing and weight because weight matters. It may be hard to understand how weight could matter with just a few hundred pounds difference, so we could look at motorbikes or lighter cars like a Lotus to better illustrate the effects of power to weight ratio.

And it isn't a night and day difference when those cars compete in relative price markets, and then you compare a Porsche to an engine in a $25k car...??? Just because they don't make it doesn't mean they can't. They probably don't because it might cost more than $25k.

Originally Posted by nikitopo

We were talking on a specific context which is comparing Supra, M2, Cayman. Not about motorcycles, not about non factory spec cars, not about what tuners can do, not about cars dating back to 2007 with different regulations and so on. It is useless trying to take single propositions out of the general context and misquote people. If you want to play, then play a fair game within the rules!
Lol. It is that simple. If you can mention some other interesting modern 2.0lt 4 cylinder factory spec engine apart from Honda (we said this one is nice) please do! Maybe I am missing some interesting engine . And all this discussion is within the topic. BMW & Toyota were saying they were targeting to make a competitor of the Porsche Boxster/Cayman.

I still haven't heard why the Porsche 2.0T or 2.5T is interesting. Maybe if you define a few metrics of what you believe is interesting about the Porsche motor then I will find some examples that satisfy those same metrics.

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Maybe you didn't understand my statement. The Z4 has an overall stiffer setup (chassis+suspension). This is what journalists were saying, unless they were wrong. Supra has an overall softer setup which is better for road. However, again it is weird. Someone would expect the coupe car with the more aggressive lines and design to be more focused for the track and not the other way around. So, I would expect Z4 to have the softer setup (more road oriented) and Supra the stiffer setup (more track oriented). Anyway, this is my personal perception. It doesn't mean that everyone should think like me and it looks that factories (BMW & Toyota) had other priorities. There were complains that the previous Z4 was too soft and maybe they changed it now.

They improved the torsional stiffness of the Z4 a lot as you said because of complaints, claiming that it is now actually stiffer than any open top roadster ever, and even stiffer than the M2 or M3 coupe or something. Maybe they went with the old formula of stiffer suspension with a soft chassis, but forgot the car was stiffer (unlikely), or they were just chasing Nurburgring times knowing their car was competing with and co-developed with the Supra (Z4 was faster than the M2 Competition).

Regardless, I believe the Supra has a stiffer chassis than the Z4, so it can afford a softer suspension (who knows if the adaptive suspension was modified in all these reviews to its softest or stiffest setting), which can give a false feeling that the total package is softer (chassis + suspension, like you said); maybe it absorbs bumps better than the Z4 and that was the difference, but overall still has a stiffer package (chassis + suspension). It is hard to know empirically from reviews.