[ZDan]

Originally Posted by SVTSHC

I won't argue the point anymore with Zdan, it's like slamming my head into a wall over. Nothings getting done, nothing will get through and I'll just end up with a headache.

I will never agree with the argument that "this is what brand X did, therefore this is what brand X *had* to do and what was BEST for them".

Corvette has held the line on size and weight over many MANY years.
Porsche has at least come close to holding the line over the past 15 or so years. (911 went from ~2800 lb. in the mid-80s to 3000+ in the mid-90s to ~3100 or so now for the lightest-weight variant), and it hasn't destroyed them.
The M3, however, went from ~2800 in the mid-80s to ~3200 in the mid-90s to 3400 in the 00's to 3700 lb. today. That's a pretty huge weight gain.

But on a sidenote Zdan, yes I've tracked my car. Many many times, I don't think the majority of people that bought an SVT Focus had any intention of "not" tracking the car.

I would bet a 6-pack that over half have never been to the track. Not a dig, I'm sure the same is true for Miatas, S2000s, etc.

But have you ever worked in the business side of the automotive industry?

I'm a stress/structural engineer, but I've developed 2- and 3-wheel electric vehicles (~25hp, 70mph) from the tires up and worked with marketing and design (styling) as well to make the vehicles as desirable as possible from a "normal" consumer's perspective, for their intended usage. Would I have rather designed/developed a cafe racer or race bike? Yes (and actually I did build one of my own), but that didn't prevent me from developing the bikes we DID produce for their intended market with the utmost enthusiasm.

You see it's easy to take your stand when you don't have experience dealing with target demographics and showing gains every fiscal year; but the industry is just what it is, an industry. Businesses do what is in a businesses best interest; spending money on R&D for a platform that isn't necessary and as a result won't move a large amount of units is wasted money. A LOT of wasted money.

So of course BMW should be building big, heavy sedans and SUVs only...
Well, OK, but it also makes BMW less relevant to enthusiasts.
They can continue down the mainstream path, but the cost is that their vehicles will become more and more Buicks and less and less "BMW's", and over time the brand's "sport" cache will be degraded.

I hope the new 1-based 2-series will be a step in the right direction and come in below 3000 lb., but based on the continuous bulking up of their product line over the past couple of decades I doubt it.

Would it be nice if BMW made an ultra light, enthusiast tailored sports car? Sure, why wouldn't it.
Would it make sense for BMW to make an ultra light, enthusiast tailored sports car? Not in the slightest.

Apart from them building an "ultra light" car, I think they could at least keep the 3-series at a realistic weight for the "small" (if no longer the smallEST) BMW. 3500+ lb. is a lot for a "compact" sport sedan! And 3200 lb. is a lot for their lightest-weight "sub-compact" 1-series.

If (and it *is* still a big "if" at this stage) Toyobaru can sell a significant number of 2700 lb. rwd coupes for $25k or so, I guarantee that BMW could do the same at $32k+, and make money doing it.

Would they take the risk? It certainly doesn't look like it. That doesn't mean it's not a risk worth taking.

Meanwhile, the Mercedes-Benzification of BMW continues...

For *some* of us, it's a shame