[Spartarus]

Originally Posted by venturaII

The cost of the swap is completely dependent upon your goals. 300 bhp is not going to be a $10K swap... Please don't say the C series just because it's a 90 degree motor ... the J series was developed specifically as a replacement for the C series with improved packaging as one of the main criteria ... But if you're specifically looking for a light, compact 6 cylinder in the 300bhp range, and available in any boneyard in America, your choices have suddenly been narrowed considerably.

Point A: First, read the "I swapped a v8 for less than 10K" thread. The cost of the engine is not significant in the cost of a swap, even "on the cheap." I'm assuming the baseline is having the car working, and nothing jerry-rigged. Using the Honda ECU & wiring harness is not an option, unless you want no gauges, no airbags, no ABS, no TRAC, and no control of the FUEL PUMP duty cycle in your returnless fuel system... in other words, not a legal or running car..

Compatible ECU - $2500 (at the lowest)
Adapter plate - $1000
Clutch & Flywheel - $800
Custom Headers - $1000
Wiring - $1000 (this is a very optimistic estimate. This means doing most of it yourself, and buying connectors, tools, and relays.)
Tuning & Dyno time - $500 (for a baseline)
Custom oil pan - $500 ( this will be necessary to clear )
Engine mounts - $500 (unless you've got a welder and you're good, then forget this line item)
Custom intake - $100 (If you do it yourself)
Misc. fuel fittings - $150 (if you keep the stock returnless system and only adapt the stock lines to the honda fuel rails, controlling the pump duty cycle, and therefore line pressure, via the compatible ECU. Otherwise, up this to $1200 or more to build a return fuel system with an inline regulator.

We're up over 8 grand before the engine on a bare-bones swap with no improved components. It will be a $10k swap at a bare minimum, if nothing goes wrong, and you're cheap, lucky, and optimistic.

Point B, your claim about packaging means nothing without measurements. I will admit, my claim is pretty meaningless for the same reason, but you are trying to disprove me, not the other way around.

Point C, the C30 from the NSX will make over 300 BHP with just tuning, no headers, and can hit 9000 RPM from the factory with no modifications. Every C-series can be tuned to make over 100 BHP/liter, with off-the-shelf parts. The C-series has 2 separate derivatives available in DOHC. Don't discount the C-motor so quickly.

Originally Posted by ort895

I think you can find these relatively cheap whereas I'm not so sure about ls's.

You can find an LS-series and a transmission with 100K miles for under 3k. Selling the FA20 and trans nets a profit off of changing engines. Profit goes to rebuild, and voila, you have a great engine for cheap.

But, read the "v8 swap under 10K" thread, and you will find out that the cost of the engine and trans alone are insignificant. Even if you do the rest of the swap "on the extra-cheap," It is still an expensive ordeal.

Originally Posted by venturaII

An LS is still going to weigh more than the J, and while I realize that being a pushrod motor make the LS very compact, I still question whether it'd be shorter or narrower than the J. It also requires a transmission swap, and at least an axle upgrade if you want it to be reasonably reliable. None of that is necessary with the J swap.

The SOHC heads on the J are taller than you think.

The intake manifold raises the height significantly. Most 60 degree v6 engines fit in the bay, with heads, just barely... But the intake manifold doesn't even come close to fitting. The J has the shortest one I've seen, but it doesn't matter, I bet it doesn't fit without modifying the hood.

You need a front sump oil pan to clear the crossmember. Even then, the engine sits relatively high. The height restriction is significant, and the crossmember is a significant hurdle. Heh.. Hurdle... See what I did there?

Why does it need to be shorter or narrower? Our engine bay is over 31 inches wide! What are you going to DO with the extra space if you don't use it? The engine bay is long enough to accommodate a 6-and-a-half liter v8 with no clearancing! The only dimension that limits this engine bay is the height, and height is coincidentally the only packaging dimension that the J-series V6 is going to cause you trouble in.

Additionally, I wouldn't be so sure about it being lighter than an LS. Remember, the LS outweighs our little 4-banger by less than 100 pounds. Heads with cams in them are heavy. Again, meaningless without numbers.