I respect your opinion, but disagree for the most part with that statement. Yes, a car that leans forward or backward (under accel or decel) will for a brief instant push (or pull) you into/out of your seat. But we're splitting hairs here.

This isn't some arcade game ride at the amusement park flinging your seat back at a 30° angle

Throw in a tune + gears into the AP1 and you get the same effect. Again, you're comparing monkeys to horses. LOL...I'm quite positive the AP2 shares more similarities with the AP1 than the FRS/BRZ so I don't quite understand your ranking. The AP1 and AP2 share the same design, virtually same chassis, almost identical engine and transmission, etc. You'd be the first to say you won't by an S2000 because of the F20C which I find to be quite hilarious coming from a "S2000 fanatic". You sound more like an AP2 fanboi, if anything.

What's next? AP2>GTR>Supra>NSX>FRS>Civic Si>Ford F150>Camry>Elise>Red Wagon>Walking by foot>>>>>AP1?

I'm pretty sure the best way to feel the "push" as you stated is to actually have a fast car /discussion.

You are correct. Edited my post to say AP2 fanboi.

And what would you use to tune an AP1? There's no one that tunes Emanage. What's left, AEM?

After driving both I still have a hard time deciding myself what to get. I formerly had an 04 AP2. Still feel like I'm missing something by not having that car anymore. I don't think my FD properly replaces it. Ahhh the decisions that weigh us down... This has been a pretty good discussion though.

frs on a track with more corners would win. s2000 has more power but in high rpm will losse traction(kik out bak end) apon accel. frs brz you get more balance and i think can be pushed harder. one guy said the frs brz gt86 is easier to drive for a beginner. it will make the beginner look good because of its balance. both cars are rwd and both get side ways. frs brz is safer for sliding. all in all my opinion is power isnt everything. frs can be pushed harder and with traction fully off and is definately not for a beginner. safer than s2000 with no traction but not easy to drive. i drive frs and have been in a s2000. yes s2000 has power but it also heavier.

I don't think the issue with the S2K is the lack of traction. I shit you not, the car doesn't have the torque to break the tires loose on demand. The S2K is trickier to push because it's twitchy at the limits. The loss of traction is NOT linear and predictable, but sudden and abrupt. At the limit, it feels like my old MR2 Turbo with its snap oversteer.

Also, the S2K is only heavier by less than 100lbs, but has a 40hp advantage. Might be a repost, but this video clearly shows the power-to-weight ratio difference between the two. Warning: BRZ/FRS gets smashed by the S2000.

lol ur funny. your right my friend s2000 he said was scary at top rpm but hey that vid was 1/4. the frs brz does it quicker than that as well. 15.7 - 15. s200 is faSter yes on straight but read up on the review they did between a new wrx turbo and a mazda speed3 on a track. jus by changing tires to derezzas with same size it smoked both of them. normal tires only was .01 or something slower and after was up to a second fast with tires. s2000 stock come with good tires not making n e excuses just saying. those 40 extra is the difference but other than that , I dont think its got nothing on the frs brz gt86. :respekt:

lol, don't think it's got nothing on the 86...except 20% more power :P
Show me where the 86 is going to pick up 40hp without extensive modification, and then we can talk.

86pro, please tell me that your replies were from a mobile phone.

I was just thinking that, haha!

Once my Z4M is sold, I'll be going through this very debate with myself... Trying to decide between an 02-03 AP1 vs an AP2 vs an FR-S. :\

A bit OT, but why are you selling the Z4M? And how much? :) Aren't there only about 1900 that made it to North America?

Technically it only needs 31 more hp to match the power/weight ratio of the s2k :D

2864 / 240 = 11.93
2758 / 231 = 11.94

When I drove the 100% stock BRZ, I didn't think it felt any slower than a stock s2k. Bottom line is that they are BOTH SLOW cars (in a straight line)! Calling one faster than the other in a straight line is silly. IMO