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Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/index.php)
-   Engine, Exhaust, Transmission (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=8)
-   -   Differences between auto and manual engine (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108795)

redlined600 07-25-2016 01:31 PM
Differences between auto and manual engine
 
I'm looking for an engine and have come across a couple from automatic cars.

What is the difference between the auto and manual engine in terms of replacing the engine. From searching it seems like there might be an oil pan difference but I'd like to know exactly before I buy anything.

Thanks.

Bman117 07-25-2016 03:30 PM
I could be wrong so dont quote me on this, but there wouldnt be any differences up to the flywheel. Auto/manual are all in the transmission boxes.

Freeman 07-25-2016 03:32 PM
If you're on Facebook message Driveway Labs he recently swapped an auto engine into his manual trans car. Surprisingly There's quite a few differences.

Spartarus 07-25-2016 04:28 PM
The RH cylinder head has a few differences. Externally, there's a block-off plate on the MT model and a vacuum pump on the AT. Internally, there's an oil pipe assembly on the AT head that's blocked on the MT head.

Then there's your flywheel vs flexplate and torque converter.

redlined600 07-25-2016 04:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartarus (Post 2712875)
The RH cylinder head has a few differences. Externally, there's a block-off plate on the MT model and a vacuum pump on the AT. Internally, there's an oil pipe assembly on the AT head that's blocked on the MT head.

Then there's your flywheel vs flexplate and torque converter.
As far as I can tell the actual crank is the same right. which makes it a simple matter of bolt on/off?

Ultimately if I had both engines sitting in front of me it shouldn't be too hard to swap the parts over that I need/don't need. Or are there some show stoppers?

Spartarus 07-25-2016 10:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redlined600 (Post 2712903)
As far as I can tell the actual crank is the same right. which makes it a simple matter of bolt on/off?

Ultimately if I had both engines sitting in front of me it shouldn't be too hard to swap the parts over that I need/don't need. Or are there some show stoppers?
Everything major is the same. There are minor differences, but if you have a blown engine from a manual car, you can swap the associated minor parts. You'll have to pull the RH valve cover to pull that oil pipe and put in the plug bolt. When you have both opened the difference will jump right out at you.

Other than that, just throw away the vac. Pump and get a cam plate from racerx or any of the other people who make aftermarket block off plates.

There are small differences in the brake booster hose but just keep the MT engine parts.

Get new flywheel bolts. ARP. But yes, the crank is the same, the flange on the crank is the same.

that's it.

Oh and IMPORTANT. Your direct injectors have to match. Each one has a flow number printed on the injector body. Swap your old direct injectors over. And swap over your IDU. The computer box on the RH port injector cover.

Ultramaroon 07-25-2016 11:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartarus (Post 2713154)
Oh and IMPORTANT. Your direct injectors have to match. Each one has a flow number printed on the injector body. Swap your old direct injectors over. And swap over your IDU. The computer box on the RH port injector cover.
Thank you very much, sir.

turtlefeeder 07-25-2016 11:59 PM
Drive it or it drives you 😆

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk

redlined600 07-26-2016 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartarus (Post 2713154)
Oh and IMPORTANT. Your direct injectors have to match. Each one has a flow number printed on the injector body. Swap your old direct injectors over. And swap over your IDU. The computer box on the RH port injector cover.
Match each other or the IDU?

Thanks :thumbsup:

Spartarus 07-26-2016 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redlined600 (Post 2713481)
Match each other or the IDU?

Thanks :thumbsup:
Match the IDU, per cylinder.

The flow number for each injector for each cylinder is programmed in the IDU.

Your old ECU stays in the car (it's hidden in the passenger footwell) therefore your old IDU has to go on the new engine.

In order for the IDU to operate the injectors correctly, the flow number in each cylinder has to match. The easiest way to ensure this is to swap them over, but you have to pull them anyway to check the number.

When you buy a new engine you'll have 8 direct injectors total. So, pull the old ones, write down number and cylinder, and pull the new ones.

If they match, you wasted your time, but there are [EDIT] 3 numbers. [/edit]

So, you want the engine to start and run... It's only logical to pull them all and ensure you have the correct number in the correct cylinder on your new engine.

carben100 09-13-2017 10:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartarus (Post 2713154)
Everything major is the same. There are minor differences, but if you have a blown engine from a manual car, you can swap the associated minor parts. You'll have to pull the RH valve cover to pull that oil pipe and put in the plug bolt. When you have both opened the difference will jump right out at you.

Other than that, just throw away the vac. Pump and get a cam plate from racerx or any of the other people who make aftermarket block off plates.

There are small differences in the brake booster hose but just keep the MT engine parts.

Get new flywheel bolts. ARP. But yes, the crank is the same, the flange on the crank is the same.

that's it.

Oh and IMPORTANT. Your direct injectors have to match. Each one has a flow number printed on the injector body. Swap your old direct injectors over. And swap over your IDU. The computer box on the RH port injector cover.
Apologies for bringing this thread back, but I'm in the middle of this swap now and can't find any information on the pipe you mentioned. There's an external one shown here, but nothing else:

http://i65.tinypic.com/2e4vwag.jpg

@Spartarus, are you sure there's an internal one as well? Not planning on pulling the valve cover off unless I need to.

Wayno 09-13-2017 10:40 PM
Or just make sure you get the direct injector driver from the new engine.
It's bolted to the engine after all for this exact reason.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartarus (Post 2713603)
Match the IDU, per cylinder.

The IDU calid has to match the ECU calid. The flow number for each injector for each cylinder is programmed in the IDU.

Your old ECU stays in the car (it's hidden in the passenger footwell) therefore your old IDU has to go on the new engine.

In order for the IDU to operate the injectors correctly, the flow number in each cylinder has to match. The easiest way to ensure this is to swap them over, but you have to pull them anyway to check the number.

When you buy a new engine you'll have 8 direct injectors total. So, pull the old ones, write down number and cylinder, and pull the new ones.

If they match, you wasted your time, but there are 4 numbers and 4 cylinders which means there's a 1 in 256 chance that the combo matches.

So, you want the engine to start and run... It's only logical to pull them all and ensure you have the correct number in the correct cylinder on your new engine.

steve99 09-14-2017 05:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartarus (Post 2713154)
Everything major is the same. There are minor differences, but if you have a blown engine from a manual car, you can swap the associated minor parts. You'll have to pull the RH valve cover to pull that oil pipe and put in the plug bolt. When you have both opened the difference will jump right out at you.

Other than that, just throw away the vac. Pump and get a cam plate from racerx or any of the other people who make aftermarket block off plates.

There are small differences in the brake booster hose but just keep the MT engine parts.

Get new flywheel bolts. ARP. But yes, the crank is the same, the flange on the crank is the same.

that's it.

Oh and IMPORTANT. Your direct injectors have to match. Each one has a flow number printed on the injector body. Swap your old direct injectors over. And swap over your IDU. The computer box on the RH port injector cover.

Hmm, i have not pulled di injectors in this car but i was under the inpression that you need to have the same flow numbered di injectors all cylindes ie all number 1 or all 2 or all 3 numbered injectors. Not a mismatched set.

If thats the case that all numbers are same in each cylinder then its possible the di computer doesnt need to know the flow numbers

Ps looked in service manuals, says use DI injectors with same numbers. In direct injector ecu install remove no memtion of calibrating it or entering flow numbers.


Ive swaped a few engine ecu for people no issues just flashed in the correct engine ecu calibration (you don't rearly need to change vin) no problems with DI ecu or fueling after changing engine ecu.


But safest option would be to keep the di injectors and DI ecu as a set

Spartarus 09-14-2017 09:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carben100 (Post 2978210)
Apologies for bringing this thread back, but I'm in the middle of this swap now and can't find any information on the pipe you mentioned. There's an external one shown here, but nothing else:

http://i65.tinypic.com/2e4vwag.jpg

@Spartarus, are you sure there's an internal one as well? Not planning on pulling the valve cover off unless I need to.
The pipe in that illustration is the same pipe to which I was referring. Yes, it is external. Yes, there's only 1. Sorry, injector cover not valve cover. My bad.


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