2017 BRZ Vs. 2005 Boxter S Vs. 2016 WRX Vs……
 

Hi All :thumbup:

I just recently shot ahead and bought a 2017 BRZ after prolonged thinking and posting and rereading and researching and on and on. I have various threads on here about it. I’d love to thank all that have tributed (as well as further dis those that trolled me on those threads), but the former list is too long so suffice it to say, if you’ve helped, than big big thanks to you sir 😊

I got the 2017 MT BRZ Limited PP version and I will be commenting here on what I like or dislike as well as compare to a long list of cars I’ve either owned or test drove... I’m too short on time (read too lazy) to summarize it in a more coherent way so it’ll mostly be rant style typing… I will mainly be comparing it to cars I’ve owned: 2005 Porsche boxster S, 2001 Toyota Celica, 2016 WRX, 2016 Mazda CX-5, and cars I’ve test driven: 2016 Mazda MX-5, 2016 Golf GTi, 2015 Fiesta ST, 2015 Focus ST, 2010 Porsche 911 Carrera S.

To start off, I absolutely love this car and am very happy I gathered up the courage to buy one. When the moment of truth comes, you start thinking rationally and worrying about things like practicality, resale, comfort, and so on. But I just nosedived and bought it and now I am so happy I did so.

Pros: Sports car feel from the exterior eye-candy silhouette, to the interior low-slung ride. Fantastic steering directness, speed, and feel. Love the gearshift and clutch feel, love the short gear ratios. Very light weight, and even feels lighter than it really is thanks to the magnificent chassis and steering. Love the light and revvy engine. Tachometer with RPS+digital speed is fantastic. Brembos are awesome even on street use and they look amazing. Very decent fuel efficiency. RWD takes the fun up to 11 anytime anywhere. More than sufficient engine power, love the fact that it’s a unique and special boxer engine, instant response from gas throttle, induction sound piped in for extra beautiful note. Very light weight feeling, very flat cornering that’s even appreciated on streets. Expected to be very reliable and cheap to fix if anything goes wrong.

Cons: Manual transmission can be annoying in traffic (but this is for MTs in general). Bumpy ride. Stock radio really really sucks (looking to replace with big dread for Subaru..). No panoramic or moonroof option (this is a personal thing for me and a big big negative). Ingress/egress is a pain but getting use to it (also not BRZ fault, just a general sportscar negative). Stock exhaust sucks, sounds like someone is chocking the engine to death (this will be fixed soon with likely TRD or Perrin catback). And, finally the notorious torque dip. It’s there, it’s easily noticeable and really ridiculous of Subaru to know about its existence yet not fix it and all the while void the warranty of your engine if you try to fix it with an engine tune. It’s like someone farting in an elevator. Big big shame on you Subaru. But I can live with it considering how revvy the engine is and how easy and fun it is to keep the revs so high up.

And now on with comparisons:

2005 Porsche Boxster S: The Porsche hands down makes the better sounds everywhere, from the engine to even the suspension sounds. Porsche just builds a musical instrument and puts it on four wheels. The engine is far more powerful and full of way more character and the car overall oozes special everywhere but then again this is a 75k USD when new so it’s not a fare comparison. Where the BRZ beats the Porsche, is the steering (BRZ is has a faster more responsive steering). BRZ probably has less steering feel but it’s electric compared to the hydraulic of the 2005 Porsche. I bet the BRZ has more feel than a more modern Porsche. The other major major win for the BRZ are the gear ratios. The Porsche has very tall gearing, 3rd will hit 100 mph. You can’t enjoy rowing through the gears without going at ballistic speeds on public roads which cuts a lot on the fun. You’re mostly stuck in 1st and 2nd gear if you’re having any fun in the Porsche on public roads. The BRZ will have you feeling like you’re blasting through the sound barrier when your speed indicator only shows about 80 mph. Another fun limiting factor of the Porsche is how fat the rear tires are. This is very good if you want to go fast, but when you just want to slide the rear and have a bit of fun, the car is very reluctant to do so and you end up applying a lot of power and throttle to unstick the fat rear tires, and don’t even think about pulling the handbrake to do that, the car does not like that at all. And don’t get me started on how fast the rear tires go on a Porsche and how expensive they are to replace. The BRZ is way more willing to play in this sense. In short, on public roads or slow speed courses, I think the BRZ is generally more fun than the Porsche. There is also the issue of Porsche reliability and cost of repairs and even crappy dealers and how it takes forever to get spare parts. Only people who’ve owned a Porsche will know this, and most of them are very reluctant to admit any of it because the Porsche is so lovable of a car, they develop psychology of denial of any issues with it (don’t believe me? Google: Porsche IMS bearing). The 911 Carrera S is the same as the Boxster mostly, just more fun steering and faster everywhere. The engine is farther back though, and you get less of the glorious engine sound that makes Porsche engine sound a thing of legends.

2016 Mazda MX-5: Both cars are way too close in comparison when I drove them back to back. I only chose the BRZ because I personally preferred the interior of the BRZ (yes I know I’m a minority in this sense), and the BRZ had rear seats and a trunk that are usable. I also hate convertibles for the noise they make. The BRZ had a better seating and driving position for me as well. I even liked the gearshift action of the BRZ more. Most of these are personal as you can judge, but as I said, these two cars are too close.

2016 WRX: I’ll straight up and say this.. I freaking hate this car passionately. I don’t want to anger any of the current owners of this car, to each his/her own but I am being frank. I bought it after doing a lot of homework and buying it as a rational purchase and boy did I regret it.. I ended up selling it when it had only 700 miles on the tach. The car seems very rational on paper, but in real life and after owning it for awhile you begin to realize how dull this car is (again my opinion). It’s fast, but that’s it. The steering feels numb with little to no feedback, the suspension is horrible because they had to stiffen it a lot to keep a heavy car under control in corners, you end up with a bouncy ride especially at the front where most of the weight is due to the bad balance. It also understeers a lot on the limit like it’s a front wheel drive car. I found the Turbo lag to be absolutely annoying, sometimes you have no power, sometimes you have too much power, you can’t modulate the throttle. The gear shifting was never fun either, it was a chore to shift through the gears where it’s fun to do so in the BRZ. The understeering nature of the car, plus it’s nonlinear throttle response, and non-enjoyable shifter made it a bad sportscar while having to deal with a manual transmission on a bumpy car made it a horrible daily driver, so you got the worst of both worlds. That’s why I hated that car and still hate it today. I know it’s very popular with the consumer, but that doesn’t change my thoughts on it one bit and makes me hate it more.

2016 Mazda CX-5: I love this car, it’s an SUV and shouldn’t be here but might as well include it considering how much I like it. It’s a smooth driver that has incredible response and beautiful drive for an SUV. It’s nowhere near as fun as the BRZ, but for daily driving and practicality, I easily say it’s one of the best driver’s cars out there today. It’ll give you enough fun to keep you entertained on your drive but it will cruise and let you relax when you just want to kick back and enjoy a smooth ride.

2001 Toyota Celica: I don’t care what people think of this car, I loved it to bits and pieces and my only wish with it was that it was RWD. I feel like the BRZ is the spiritual successor of this car. Both cars are meant to be pocket rockets and both cars ended up being largely misunderstood by the general public due to lack of power (which is really not even needed for public roads in my personal opinion). It's a fantastic car which gave me many fond memories which I'm sure the BRZ will do the same, it already is in the short period I've had it..

2016 Golf GTi: I loved this car when I test drove it and almost chose it over the BRZ. What pulled me away from it, is again the nonlinear turbo throttle response (I really detest this), and the less than excellent steering (steering is a very big deal for me). Reliability scares were there as well. I would say 95% of people will be happy with the reliability but you don’t want to be among those 5% unlucky ones. Plus, in my experience with all German cars, they’re fragile machines. FWD is nowhere near as fun as well. But on the other hand, I did love the interior that just oozed quality everywhere, and the giant panoramic roof (big big plus for me), and the amazing engine sounds. It’s a very good car, and honestly the major factor was my worries on reliability.

2016 Focus St Fiesta ST: The Focus was straight out boring to drive; the car was overall so numb that I instantly lost interest in it as soon as I drove it. The Fiesta ST is another story, the steering is excellent unless in very low speeds where it feels over-assisted, and the engine and exhaust note are an absolute marvel of a combination. What I didn’t like about it, is the high riding economy car feel that even carries on in the interior as well. It’s just the economy car didn’t appeal to me too much. And I’m having way more fun with the RWD of the BRZ than I could’ve ever done in a FWD car.

Mustang GT: while I did not test drive this car ever, it was on my shortlist of cars. Ultimately, I just couldn’t get my head around the absolute mammoth weight of this car. It weighs more than a lot of SUVs. Gas guzzling is not to my liking either. And ultimately, if I bought a Mustang GT, I would be kicking myself in regret in not getting the GT350 but that car is in a different league altogether.



Further Notes on BRZ: I don’t know why this car gets dinged so badly for its lack of power, sure it’s slow but I like that, it keeps me out of trouble honestly, I get to have so much fun and never ever hit 100 mph. That’s a big positive for me. But in terms of power, it gives you all the excitement and playfulness you can ever ask for. I mean I can easily do a burnout with it (you kick the clutch just a little but it’s not that harmful). There have been instances where I spun the wheels all the way through 1st and 2nd gear and instances when I shifted too fast from 3rd to 4th and ended up fishtailing the car (this is with winter tires that are much less grippy though). I mean the car was built for fun and excitement, not overall figures and numbers, what more could you want from it? I think the best summary of this car is: You get quality of performance not quantity of performance. And personally, am very happy to have put my money on that.
I am not sure if I’ve outgrown the sports car in my life but I think this car will be the ultimate test for this. If it doesn’t work out, it’ll probably be SUVs for me for the rest of my life LOL. But what an awesome way to go out with a bang, love you BRZ :w00t:

Thank you for the thoughtful write up. Agree on many points, especially on CX-5.

Did you buy new? If so, expect it to get even better. I came from a long list of Hondas, and compared to them, my FR-S's engine seemed to lack throttle response and was what I would call "stiff". But past 20K miles it has limbered up and seems a lot more free revving than I remember it being when it was new. Or maybe I've just gotten used to it over time.



I love the looks and the handling of the twins, but dayum, Honda makes some great engines and manual trannys.

Yup :) that CX-5 is a marvel of a machine. It's the first SUV that changed my mind about SUVs. I mean that SUV can lift-off oversteer! of course until the traction control cuts the fun (can never be switched off).

I'm sure a Porsche Macan can do a better job but certainly nowhere near the affordability of the CX-5. That car raises questions about the ever needing a sports car to be honest..

Yes it's new and yes I'm sure it will loosen up with the miles, every car I've had new did that so no reason to expect the BRZ to be any different. I'm sure it's gonna be way more responsive and reavvy with time.

I don't think it's getting use to the engine. I believe a lot of manufacturers install this limiting software on the engine to keep users from damaging the engine when it's new.

I could be wrong though :iono:

My dad has a 2003 Boxster (not an S). It isn't his primary car and while I was doing an engine rebuild on my daily driver (not my FRS) he loaned me the Boxster for about 2 weeks. The car is fun to drive. The steering isn't as quick as the BRZ/FRS but it has more feel and is more heavy than the BRZ. His Boxster isn't as fast as my FRS, we raced from a 1st gear roll on the way back from an autox a few weeks ago and I smoked him. The Boxster sounds infinitely better than the FRS though. The sound is intoxicating. The Boxster doesn't have a torque dip either. That is my number one problem with the FRS. If you are driving very casual below 3k it's totally fine. Better than the Boxster actually. If you are going balls out to redline on each shift it is also better than the Boxster. But if you want to push a little to make a car pass without trying to go 100% it is so aggravating.

About the sound. I've always wished you could make the FRS sound more like a Porsche. I've listened to a ton of YouTube videos of various Subarus and FRS's but nothing sounds even remotely like a Porsche. I assumed it was do to the extra 2 cylinders. The other day I got to thinking, Porsche is building boxer 4s now. I got on YouTube and pulled some up. They sound exactly like a Subaru 4. I guess my dreams of having my FRS sound like a Porsche are over now. I really dislike the Subaru rumble sound.

Oh yeah and the shifter feels WAY better than the Boxster. The Boxster is a cable shifter and very sloppy. Maybe they have improved over the years. Funny Honda has been able to do cable shifters for ages that feel better than a Porsche. You would think Porsche could at least match Honda.

Your dad sounds like a very good father. :D

The first Boxsters were not that strong. The '99 model had 204PS and the '03 model (not an S) had 228PS. Not a big difference in power, if you consider also that they are heavier cars.

Exactly. 225HP and another 200lbs. Close ratio 6MT vs 5MT. Also, because we were headed back from an autox I had all the floor mats, spare, jack, and tools removed along with about a 1/4 tank. He didn’t bother pulling stuff out of his for the event. So the weight advantage was even better.

I figured I would beat him but we were both surprised by how much.

@ermax Any other changes in your car? Tune , exhaust?

Great write up. I've had several powerful 911's and TBH I have more fun in the 86. On the track the 86 just handles so well also. As far as the power, it's fine. 4-500 hp cars on the street are just ridiculous. You just can't use that kind of power and as far as tracking, the 86 in it's stock state will teach you to be a lot better driver than a car with gobs of power.

You hit the hammer exactly on the nail. There is just no way a 4 will sound like a 6.

Really if I were designing the perfect sports car for the road, it would be very close the BRZ but what I would add is a 6 cylinder rather than 4 and a 2.3 or 2.4 liter engine, around 240-250 HP and a glass roof. A decent head unit would be good as well (crappy Subaru please no..), remove around 200 lb of weight and you're set with the perfect sports car for the road.

I wish the 6 would sound like a Ferrari :P like the Lancia Stratus engine, that would be magnificent.

There is a video out there with a Mazda MX-5 swapped to a V6 and the sound was just sublime on that one. Go figure. And yeah then new Porsche 4 do sound like a Subaru, so many reviewers make that comment all the time. Porsche is really losing the plot with their newer cars.

Yup :w00t:


Also, I might add, the looks of the BRZ are really really growing on me now. This car is not photogenic at all. It doesn't look that great in pictures but in real life that's a whole different story. It's really a stunner and puts a smile on my face every time I see it from the outside and get in it. And I'm liking it more and more.

It also seems like I'm not the only one, I've honestly lost count on how many huge smiles I get from other people and how often I've been approached with "nice car" and "nice BRZ". I am really downright surprised at how many people know exactly what this car is and I get loads of compliments for it. They even compliment the interior! the red contrast stitching that I love a lot. I am frankly so surprised that this car is an attention grabber. Didn't expect it to be.

It's not far off the Porsche in that category, but where it's even better than the Porsche is the lack of haters. That's one aspect I do not miss about the Porsche. So many haters out there that do and say things you'd rather not deal with just because you're rolling in a Porsche. No such thing in the BRZ. So far, only positive attention.

Here is your almost unicorn car. Only thing is it has a turbo 4 but sounds better than the 718 in videos. If it follows the trend of the 718 or EcoBoost Mustangs, torque would come sooner than an NA 6 alternative.

"This car is fun at normal road speeds. Finally a car that's not too overpowered or too grippy and is really fun. You don't absolutely have to thrash it...This is a landmark car...It's like a mini McLaren...it's a bit more club car than a Cayman, it's a bit more livable than an Elise. It's just the car that enthusiasts have been after for ages."
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sj759hN02o"]Alpine A110 Review: Back with a bang! - YouTube[/ame]