Injector / seal failure or Miss-fire codes.. please post here
 

Greetings,

So i know a few people now have had the dreaded miss-fire codes like P0351, like @2forme @fishek @subaruferrucci, and at least one person has lost an engine due to injector seal (or injector) failure, @track_warrior.

I believe with a few of the folks that have gone to the dealer, the dealer has replaced coil packs... others have been diagnosed with bad injector seals (not sure if it's the DI seals or the port seals).

Just wanted to try and gather all the info we can in one thread as i believe seal failure, and running lean on one cylinder, is the root cause for most of the missfire code cases.

So, please post up your symptoms and what if any repairs have been made, as well as the results of those repairs.


Quick EDIT:
So, there seem to be at least a couple issues people are posting about here.
1. Pop Noise (like a cork popping, not pop like a small explosion) during startup or under heavy load. (This seems to be due to missing teflon injector seal, fix is to replace the direct injector seal and the direct injector insulator)
2. Misfire codes due to crank position sensor issue (11-130-13 Subaru Technical Service Bulletin Difficulty Starting, Rough Idle, Cam Position or Misfire DTCs)
3. Other misfire codes

Not sure if #1 can also present misfire codes or not yet, but it seems so. Still looking for a copy of subaru TSB 11-130-13. After we get some more data together I'll try to organize the info a little better.

I believe there's also a TSB for misfire codes. 11-130-13 or something like that. Anyone have access to the TSB docs?

what he said

but i will be going to the dealership today for a few other issues i am haveing

If you want my advice guys as a precaution lay off the throttle if you ever get a code. If an injector seal is leaking it could mean that your can can go lean and kaboom like mine did. I know a car in japan also blew an engine at WOT because of an injector seal and a friend in Austin is having issues with his as well.

I first hit CEL P0351, cylinder 1, while running on the track, cleared it a couple times but it kept coming back.
Dealer also noticed a popping "fire cracker" sound coming from my intake and blamed it on my mods.
I asked the dealer to replace my coil pack on cylinder one and they refused and once again blamed my mods.

I then upgraded my coils to Okadas, on my own dime, and the P0351 CEL went away.
Popping noise also went away except for cold starts.

Took it to the dealer today and asked them to replace my injector O rings and they refused.
I showed them pictures of other owners injectors missing the O rings and he referred the issue to some up level Subaru guy and said I might hear something back in a few weeks and then started describing a multi day process of keeping my vehicle for testing.

On my own I ordered all of the direct injection O rings and seals, once again on my own dime.
I'm considering having my own mechanic replace them - Subaru dealer said it would cost $800.
Given my luck thus far with Subaru's warranty system I figure if my engine fails they are going to blame it on my mods and hand me the bill so I'm better off fixing the issue on my own instead of waiting for a full blown failure.

Given Subaru's low volumes on the BRZ they haven't tracked down many of these issues on their own.
When you point out that Toyota already has a fix they just shrug their shoulders and walk away.
I'm less than impressed.

@CSG Mike and @CSG David might have some input here, they blew one of their direct injectors IIRC.

Nathan

What's mods do you have.. ?
Try a different dealer maybe? They need to prove the mod caused or was
Related to the issue somehow. If you are in the right, then you should call Subaru and get them involved. Tell them to send out a regional rep..

Related thread about intake backfire/popping: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20930

Maybe we should merge the threads together?

My BRZ has done the intake backfire a only couple times when it was cold out and I was doing speedy 3-2 downshifts with a big rev match. Haven't heard it in a while; never heard it on the track. No CEL's ever.

Thanks @mad_sb for creating a knowledge base on this issue. I'll know where to begin troubleshooting if I get P0351 or any more intake backfires.

Our biggest hurdle as owners will be getting dealers to acknowledge the issue with the injector seals and/or the coil packs and not deny warranty work because of unrelated mods.

I'm still not clear how injector seal failure can lead to a lean condition but I want to understand it. Is it because it reduces the pressure at that injector?

My evo VIII had a bad #3 injector from the factory... took me forever to figure out why it was a knocky bish. Eventually i pulled the plugs and shined a bright light down the plug holes.. #1,2,&4 were black are carbon while #3 was barely tarnished and lightly pitted from detonation. #3 plug also had tiny round balls of aluminum deposited on it from detonation, but it was hard to tell a color difference from the others IIRC. I replaced the injectors, problem solved, but 65,000 miles latter #3 piston cracked on the new owner.

Things to note, a car with a bad (not flowing enough) injector will need more fuel trims and richer targets in the fuel maps to reach the same afr as a car that if functioning properly because sensors are placed in the collector they read average afr for the most part.

Sadly it is a PITA to even get to the plugs, let alone get a peak down the plug hole to see how the piston looks, so visual inspection as an early warning system is out unless you have a flexible bore scope.

Also of note, we have per cylinder ignition timing compensation maps. The factory rom has up to 3 degrees of timing pulled out of #1 and #2 under WOT loads. I have not seen per cylinder fuel compensation maps yet, but I would not be surprised if we have them.

Exactly why i wanted to post this thread. It's getting close to header time, oil cooler time, and i have been thinking about doing an E85 tune as well.... So, if this is a material defect we are dealing with, then its a sooner or latter thing and i may hold off a bit before i go any further with mods and especially E85.

If it were just an installation issue then I would go ahead and replace the seals... but if it's materials.... whats to say they won't fail again. Could it be a design issue leading to seals on a specific injector being more prone to fail etc....

taking my car to the dealership to get my door speakers fixed for some reason. but anyways the tech person said they wouldn't check the p0351 because i cleared the code. i was in NC and had to drive 7 hours home and watned to see if it would come back.

but anyways i am going to make a stink about it when i drop the car off if they dont at least look into the issue light or not.

I've heard a popping noise on 3-2 downshifts before too. But I hear them from the rear. Would this be related?

Not likely related, probably just exhaust backfires, which are normal especially with aftermarket exhaust.

Well this is disheartening. Lol