Originally Posted by DarkPira7e (Post 3199545)

How much he does the 2019 Mazda Miata make?

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e (Post 3199545)

How much he does the 2019 Mazda Miata make?

Originally Posted by davesrave (Post 3199525)

They were interested enough when they were designing it in the 2008s or so to give it 200 HP. The car world has evolved, and the trend is increased horsepower. Surely, they can't ignore that, nor their customers desires.

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 3199561)

It was not built to be a contender in the HP wars in 2008 and it won't be in 202?. People that wanted a 2 door WRX/STi will continue to be disappointed and Subaru/Toyota don't care if they are. They are not looking for huge sales and will not change the whole nature of the car to please the "muh horses brah" crowd.

Originally Posted by davesrave (Post 3199593)

Almost completely agree. Just don't understand why you quoted me in your reply. Where are we diverging on this?

Originally Posted by evoto86 (Post 3199641)

The one thing I ask Toyota to do is to give us a modern 4AGE with 230HP but that's an unrealistic pipe dream, im not a fan of the boxer engine but I still love my 86 regardless.

Originally Posted by 86MLR (Post 3199644)

I would prefer a new and improved 3SGE BEAMS.

My car has about 2 years left before I sell it, currently there isn't alot I would swap it for.

Well, not for the budget price the sell the 86 for anyway.

Hopefully someone, Toyota, maybe Nissan puts out a small, light, RWD manual NA coupe.

Hopefully it doesn't look like that awful concept car.

Note to Toyota-dump Subaru.

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 3199257)

With you but 10% lower on the HP and torque. Oh and it will gain about 50KGs.

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 3199441)

One word - Emissions.
Oh and...
Fuel economy
Three, three words.

The 2021 mileage and emissions standards set by most of the world are incredibly aggressive (you younger guys don't even want to know what they are for 2025 forward). The higher revving an engine is the worse the emissions and mileage are. This is why smaller turboed engines have popped up in even basic cars. They are actually more efficient when driven in a "normal" manner as most of the public drive.
The dip is there because they had to to meet current standards not because the engineers were too dumb to fix it. It is also why Europe didn't get the upgrades on the 2017 ATs. If they had to make these compromises at the 2013 controls level how on earth do people think they can up the displacement and revs under the 2021 standard?
I know that people here do not give a single damn about such things but the manufacturers have to or they can't sell their cars. The FA 24 that everybody is so sure is coming to the platform is actually a really good example of this. The Ascent that it was designed for is a huge vehicle and for all intents and purposes it is a truck engine. If built 20 years ago they would have just thrown a six at it and called it a day but now they had to come up with a different option. The problem with that engine in the 86/BRZ is that they have made it very clear over the years that they will remain NA. I just don't see the FA24 meeting all the requirements in an NA form. If they do it will be so down tuned that the advantages would be lost. Subaru also like to hold onto engines for a long, long time so dumping the FA20 after just 6 years would not be their norm.
What is physically possible vs what they will be permitted to do are very different things so asking for the equivalent of a 20 year old car is just not going to happen no matter how much people would like it. The internal combustion engine is pretty much doomed within the next 30 years so be happy with what you can get now.

https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/..._fleet_avg.png

Originally Posted by new2subaru (Post 3199652)

They already did and you're driving it :iono:

Originally Posted by nikitopo (Post 3199654)

So, we guess that will gain some HP and torque and it'll be heavier 50kgs. It should be ready for the coming 2021 emission standards and Subaru wouldn't like to dump the FA20 engine after just 6 years. The only think I can imagine solving this "equation" is to keep the same engine and change the transmission to include a small electric motor. Batteries could go in the trunk area and they would provide also a bit better weight distribution. This would align pretty well with the current Subaru e-boxer concept, but for the new BRZ it would be just a RWD option.

Originally Posted by 86MLR (Post 3199657)

I firmly believe that if the 86 was fully toyota it would have gone down in history like the MX-5