Toyota to revive Supra nameplate?
 

http://photos.leftlanenews.com/photo...pra-ri_432.jpg

http://www.leftlanenews.com/toyota-t...nameplate.html

Report: Toyota secures trademark for Supra name

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog....yota-ft-hs.jpg
Toyota FT-HS Concept – Click above for high-res image gallery

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/30/r...or-supra-name/

Crap, I gotta get my ass in gear and start making some more money so I can afford to be the first on my block to buy one!



(please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, don't be bullshit...)

:D i hope it has the same roof as the FT-HS that is my fav part of that concept :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D if they release it il be selling the 86 for that mongrel :D

what is worrying me, if the stories hold any weight, is that both the supra and mr2 proposals have hybrid powertrains.. does this mean the 86 will 2???

No, the 86 is NOT going to be a hybrid. Now... will Toyota be bringing back the legendary v160/161 transmissions once this car comes back to life?

Too heavy for this application.

Bah...

Do I have too much time on my hands? Sometimes...

My insane wish list for Toyota.

My Fantasy 2013 Toyota Supra Turbo


The biggest problems would be making the JDM version. I don't know what deals were made for Nissan to walk around the 280PS gentlemen's agreement without consequence. Maybe because they're technically a French company now? And Lexus is American (in a sense) or the LFA is simply so low production it doesn't matter? Either this car needs an exemption from the 280PS limit, or some way to make it worthwile for the Japanese market to buy it with let's say 350 bhp (280PS was always fudged a bit anyways...). I would electronically or physically 'choke' it down to 350 bhp for there if I had to. 1.125" dual exhausts??? WTF? Imagine getting a 200 bhp bump from changing your exhaust! Might be hard on the motor so doing it virtually in the ECU would be best I think. At 350 bhp and a max target curb weight of 3400 lbs it would still be a good sports car (370Zish power to weight). No giant killer, but that is an official TRD sport 'chip' away... Reducing weight would be the way to do it but if a full carbon LFA weighs almost 3300 lbs how much lower can it go?

Non-turbo would get the 2GR-FSE (3.5L 311bhp) outside of Japan,
3GR-FSE (3.0L 252bhp)in Japan as well as corresponding transmissions/rear diffs.
Japanese motor selection is based simply on displacement due to insurance groups.

Target Price:
Turbo : $75000 Canadian. (undercut the GTR by $14k)
NA: $Errr... Less.

Engine:
(Imagine a more performance oriented 2GR-FSE --->with a more boost-worthy bottom-end and shorter stroke to keep it under 3000cc for JDM insurance reasons)

New Motor:
1ZR-GTSE
60 degree 24 valve V-6 DOHC Aluminum heads and block with cast iron cylinder liners
High rigidity, cast aluminum, closed-deck block.

94mm bore X 71mm stroke (oversquare was chosen because this will need to flow a lot of air and bigger bores allow for bigger valves and bigger ports as well as less stress when it revs)
2956cc displacement (for the JDM under 3000cc insurance group, not nostalgia)
9.0:1 Compression (Could handle 15psi tuned well. Direct injection can help here.)

Super-awesome head gaskets (remember the 7M!)
37mm intake valves (estimate based on bore) Titanium
33mm exhaust valves (estimate based on bore) Titanium
VVTL-i camshaft phasing and lift control (To maintain similar flow characteristics with the 2GR-FSE at lower rpm this motor may need lift control to keep intake velocities high at lower rpms)
Maybe a dual-runner TVIS style system, also to help keep low rpm intake velocities high.

Forged Crankshaft (for strength) all the fancy treatments (I'm not totally up to speed here beyond microfinishing, nitriding. Maybe cross drilling for oiling plus end feed oiling?)
Forged Connecting Rods with super-awesome bolts (for strength, bolts were the least strong point of the 2JZ-GTE) Undecided material (High strength alloy steel or Titanium)
Forged Pistons (Better than coated hypereutectic and who cares about a little cold slapping noise)

Dual-Pass radiator with ducted electric fans (Keep things cool)
Reverse-flow (head first) cooling (for detonation/pre-ignition resistance)
Electric assisting waterpump. (for cooldown like a turbo-timer)

Twin variable geometry turbochargers. (Similar to Garrett GT2860R compressor map, suitable for the power output, variable geometry for response)
Dual side mount intercoolers (due to US crash regulations I think, otherwise big front-mount)
DS4 direct/port combination injection (better combustion efficiency)

Coil and igniter on plug design ignition (just the modern way to go, I guess)
Oversized fuel supply (should be able to handle 5-10 more psi of boost)

Piston oil-squirters (Keep the pistons cool! Detonation and preignition are BAD!)
Overbuilt oil supply, factory accumulator (another throwback to a 7M sensitive point, but an accumulator is great in any performance car)
Factory windage tray.

Numbers estimates
544 bhp @ 7700 rpm
487 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm

Compare with LFA V10
552 bhp @ 8700 rpm
354 lb-ft @ 6800 rpm

Compare with original 2JZ-GTE (North American market)
320 bhp @ 5600 rpm
315 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm

Pretty rough estimates based on 2GR-FSE flow and taking into account the smaller displacement motor and the denser intake charge. Torque rpm would depend on how it builds boost.
Redline 8000 rpm (would depend on how fast the power tapers off here)
8500 rpm rev limiter (ditto)
Max stock boost pressure 15psi (around 1 bar). Max for turbos maybe 20psi (for simple upgrade power)

Electronic Nannies

Unsure on electronic throttle. Drove it in a Yaris and hated it (weird, not linear).
Traction and yaw control, Lotus style slip % control maybe.
Maybe Racelogic style traction control?
Anti-lag (If it's not too hard on the turbos)
Launch control (ditto)
ABS
Possibly a TEMS style electronic shock controller.

Drivetrain

V160 6 speed manual transmission (Proven bullet-proof)
1st: 3.83
2nd: 2.36
3rd: 1.68
4th: 1.31
5th: 1.00
6th: 0.79
Carbon fiber driveshaft
Limited slip rear differential (Clutchpack stock with optional TORSEN)
3.XX:1 (can't remember this, could be changed to suit a target top speed though) Final Drive
Multi plate carbon clutch (beautifully light but handle TONS of power, from my experience with a 3 plate Tilton. Downside is noise, but I threw in forged pistons too so whatever...)
Optional 8 speed Automatic out of the ISF (If people insist... Make the package that it comes with called "I'm a little girly poseur automatic Package" and cost $15000)

Chassis
Steel unitbody (keep costs down)
Front-mid engine (Supras old inline iron block sixes didn't help balance too much. V6 is way better here)
Rear wheel drive
2 + 2 coupe

Styling
By the French studio that did the FT/R-86/S

Steering
Power assisted rack and pinion (electro hydraulic where an electric motor turns the PS pump instead of a belt off the engine. Maybe user tuneable for amount of assist/feedback)

Suspension Front
Upper and lower forged aluminum control arms
Coil spring over tube damper w/ electronic control (Other options are the magnetic style adjusters that GM and Ferrari use or Koni FSD tuned to the car)
anti-roll bar

Suspension Rear
Upper forged aluminum control arm
Lower forged aluminum 1 semi trailing link and 2 lateral links
Coil spring over tube damper w/ electronic control (Other options are the magnetic style adjusters that GM and Ferrari use or Koni FSD tuned to the car)
anti-roll bar

Brakes Front
6 piston forged calipers
2 pc Cast Iron and aluminum hat 14" vented discs
ABS control

Brakes Rear
4 piston forged calipers
2 pc Cast Iron and aluminum hat 13" vented discs
ABS control

Wheels/Tires Front
Forged Monobloc 18 x 10"
285/30R18

Wheels/Tires Rear
Forged Monobloc 18 x 11"
315/30R18

Measurements (roughish):

LxWxH: 170x77x50
Wheelbase: 105
Track F/R: 65/64
Weight distribution F/R: 49/51
Curb Weight: 3400 lb (with sound deadening, powerseats, climate control/AC, stereo, etc...All the stuff that's going to get ripped out when made to race spec and hopefully under 3000 lbs)

Fight ZR1 or bust!

:bellyroll:... rrriiiigght. If it is a ZR1 class car, you can be sure it will also cost ZR1 money. s

Gentleman's agreement no longer exists. Not an issue.

I think that without amenities such as Nav, 8 way power seats, God knows how many airbags and a 19 speaker sound system the LFA could be at or below 3100lbs. Which is amazing considering this is an FR car. The mid engined 458 has weighed in at 3500+lbs by independent testers (Ferrari always give dry weights).

To me, the Supra has always been an exceptional interpretation of a Z class car. The MkIV was an out of the is world stunner and IMHO, to meet people's expectations, they'd probably have to forgo a V6 version. ~430hp out of the 4.6L 1UR V8 sounds reasonable. to start @ $50k.... this is unless they decide to go with a boosted V6 for entry, but seiously No Toyota V6 will be cutting it to compete against anything but the Z in NA form (Though I've heard the 2GR can see up to 470hp all motor, but I believe this is close to, if not, a race spec engine). A boosted 1UR could easily see 600bhp. @ a Curb weight of about 3500-3600lbs I don't see it being a ZR1 killer, but I could see it playing the numbers game to Match and or beat the Z06 and GT-R on paper. With the lessons learnt from the LFA's development, i could see the suspension and chassis setup bettering both and being a better overall car than both.


New V6s and 8s aren't due until the end of the next cycle of cars model years. Don't see it happening, but i really would love to see the philosophy applied to the LFA's engine used to make Tiny yet powerful V8s and 6s. The GR and UR series engines are already all alloy, and have cast Iron liners. They are open deck, but the limited boost that they have seen, they have shown the ability to hold an incredible amount of hp.
VVTL-i is yesterdays technology. Anything of that sort will be Valvematic (I'm sure you've heard of that), and ALL of Toyota's engines Today (except maybe the smallest 4cyl) come with Forged steel crankshafts, and 4 bolt (4 cylinders) or 6 bolt (V6s and V8s) main caps. Some of the 4 cyls (AZ series) come with Forged connecting rods I've heard (haven't been able to confirm this).

Be sure that anything on the performance end will have D4-S, and I have heard that Toyota have been doing some very interesting work on VG Turbos and Electrically assisted VG turbos for more than half a decade now. When will we see the result of that work? :iono:

Be sure all electronic nannies will be present and can be turned off. I have heard the newest nannies are pretty damn good (IS-F and LFA).

I wish too that the V160 could be brought back, but that is highly unlikely. Maybe....just maybe :mad0259:

Wait, were you talking about the 86 or the Supra wrt the transmission?

That write up was pure fantasy. I didn't even do enough research to see if Toyota already had an engine family named ZR, I just picked it to sound cool. Oops.

That would be my design requirements as project lead.

In all honesty I don't know much about Valvematic at all.

VVT-i I get, I have a VVTi IS300 head at home that I'm trying to figure out what to do with in terms of my 1JZ. Putting it on is no big deal, but tuning the VVT-i I have no idea beyond a quick summary of when Toyota chooses to advance or retard cam timing. Concept looks simple though, oil pressure changes the position of the camshaft inside a fatter than normal pulley.

VVTL-i I don't know if I get or not. I'm picturing something like VTEC, 2-profile cam lobes and a rocker arm or follower that is disconnected when the big lobe hits it until the engagement point locks it to the normal one activating the big lobe.

The part of Valvematic that confuses me is the continuous part of the lift adjustment. VVTL-i and VTEC would be just 2 stages, right? High and low. So what does Valvematic do? I can only imagine something like a rocker arm with a moveable pivot point/fulcrum that would vary the ratio on demand. Something like that?

Anyway I would be totally ecstatic if they just made a 2UR-GSE powered 3300lbs coupe with a 6-speed manual(and enough room in the tunnel to stuff in a V160 without too much hammering). And a bit of room in the engine bay for DIY turbo installs.

good news for supra fans but first things first finish the FT86

The good news is that by the time the Supra finally comes out, the FT/R-86/S will be paid off.

I realized that it was. Was just helping you to realize that your design requirements aren't far off from what Toyota actually has... (Yes, Toyota does have a ZR engine I think :bellyroll: , small 4 cyl).

To your doubts;

VVTL-i is similar in concept to i-VTEC actually, it is more than a step ahead of just VTEC. 2 cam lobes per cylinder, essentially "hi"- and "low" like VTEC, but It also can infinitely/continually adjust timing as well on the intake side. Not to mention the valve timing mechanism on Toyota's has always been better.

Valvematic is similar to BMW's Valvetronic setup, but achieves the same net result with a simpler mechanism, occupying less space (hence the height of the engine heads stay the same), presumably being more reliable and I assume less weight. It hasn't been confirmed, but it might be possible to use direct injection with Toyota's system. It is probably the most advanced system right now, Valvtronic is 2 stage and VTEC is simply on and off. It is continuously variable in that it will adjust lift between a minimum and a maximum to any point depending on conditions. Apart from this, it has VVT-i on both intake and exhaust sides as part of the system.

Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHNXbGGvOdc

You will also find links to how BMW's and Audi's system works. Honda's should be somewhere there too.
You'll even find a vid of their VG turbos that are already in use on their diesel vehicles.


As for a 3300lb Coupe? I wouldn't hold my breath, but I'd be more than ecstatic if it came to be. Heck, I'd be happy if they used the Aluminum chassis they originally designed for the LFA. They could probably bring it under the 3500lb mark. The UR is a heavy sum'a bitch though, and I have been thoroughly pissed since it's inception that it isn't as light as or lighter than the UZ.

p.s. In systems live Valvematic, the throttle actually controls the lift on the valves rather than the throttle body. The throttle body/butterfly remains for redundancy in case of system failure (like in BMWs).

The video is very interesting, the concept was kind of what I imagined, some way to change the leverage of the cam to the valve. But I see at least one problem with it. Space. Like you mentioned about how they may be able to get direct injection in it.

The big problem for me is that they move the camshaft down and to the side, which could cause problems for optimal port location and shape. It could force a tighter bend from the manifold to the valve. Or at the very least restrict the option to use straighter more vertical ports. This may be an excellent economy and emissions setup but I don't know about from a pure performance point of view.

As for the VVTL-i, think I have it. A VTEC-style profile changing system attached to a VVT-i variable pulley. Hence all they did was add (L)ift to a VVT-i system.

I wonder sometimes if they are maybe getting too gizmo-happy instead of focusing on simpler things (from a manufacturing point of view) like airflow analysis. (Except direct injection. That has awesome potential.)